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Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

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Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#61

Post by swombat »

throwaway52 wrote: post #37
keefe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get too excited about randomly leaving unless you have a particular plan in mind. If you don't have equity, it's definitely a good idea to separate yourself emotionally - but if you've got a steady paycheck, there's no reason not to keep cashing them until you have your next step sorted.

This is spot on. I think at this point I'm seeing the light, but just because things are looking like they'll end badly doesn't mean I'll put myself in a worse position because of it. Good call.

Actually, I'd counter that.

Getting out of there will make you way more available for opportunities. And almost any opportunity is better than what you're doing now, so I would get out in a hurry.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#63

Post by gamble »

dragoon wrote: post #17

Let's get real about something: they're business guys, and you're the technical muscle, right? You seem young, and you're probably as good at sizing them up (note your "great people" comment) as the average MBA is at writing code; by this, I mean, not at all. Don't even try. Make your decisions based on hard facts, such as how much equity you have already and when you will start collecting a salary, and not based on…

> After all, it's going to be a $10 billion company one day, and that 0.25% is going to make you a millionaire many times over, no?

Sage wisdom, here. It's easy to seem generous when you're dreaming about carving off a tiny sliver from an enormous pie. Startups aren't an adventure, or a calling, or a mission from god - they're a business. And the fastest way to shed the BS and get down to reality is to insist on equity, in writing.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#64

Post by gaius »

baguasquirrel wrote: post #42
gaius wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be so blunt but in this setting, friendly and manipulative are synonyms.

I couldn't agree more, and add one to the folks who've been in the "when we become revenue neutral". The funny thing is that in my case, the entire company bought into the founder's line on that (well, only about 12 people), because none of us had done a startup before and we didn't know better. In any case, that's not how it works in the startup world. There's a reason why over the years, companies adopted vesting s…

I've been promised stock options that never materialized too. If it ain't on paper it don't exist, and if your boss is truly honest he won't pretend that it does.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#65

Post by Natsu »

idan wrote: post #60

There's a lot of sound advice in the thread (TL;DR: many red flags, get out now!) I'd like to add my experience of having stayed at such a company, and getting the short end of the stick. If you end up making the wrong choice -- yes -- you'll lose money, bills will be scary, etc etc. I hate to sound cliché, but you sound like a bright individual, and that stuff will eventually recede in your rearview mirror. If you s…

> I saw many things I now recognize as hallmarks of mismanagement.

Could you expand upon those? Maybe they're obvious, but I'm curious and I'm sure there are people here who would prefer to avoid learning to recognize such things from experience.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#66

Post by nitrogen »

gaius wrote: post #28
throwaway52 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what they said was that to give out shares at this point would require additional lawyer fees. They are already formed as an S corp (I believe), so I'm not sure how much lawyer fees would be required, but nevertheless, I was young and naive when I first started (this is my first startup) and probably should have pushed a bit harder.

A startup whose founders can go on holiday for a week can afford lawyer's fees.

Vacations needn't be expensive. Sure, there's a loss of one week's income generation, but it's possible to have a fantastic week away on what it would cost to talk to a lawyer for half an hour. Some examples: camping and fishing, eating what you catch to save on food; rock climbing; backpacking; etc.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#68

Post by CyberFonic »

points wrote: post #43

>> "I'm the only programmer" >> "all of the founders (CEO/CFO/COO)" >> "no equity" WHAT? Quit. Now.

One programmer and three CXX's already? and they haven't made a dime yet??? All their MBA training has taught them is how to profit off the sweat of others.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#69

Post by dsulli »

dansingerman wrote: post #51

Do they read HN? Is there an office of four people (A programmer, a CFO, a COO and a CEO) all looking at each other thinking - is this us? If I was anyone but the programmer I'd probably be crapping myself. Which tells you something about the position you are in. (i.e. one of power)

Hah - I doubt it. With titles like this, I think they rather read the print version of Fortune magazine monthly.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#70

Post by trevelyan »

gaius wrote: post #30
throwaway52 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the experience based insight. I've had that nagging worry all along. Part of me has wanted to be a bit more trustworthy as they've shown themselves to be very friendly people -- I regularly go to bars with the CEO outside of work, the COO and I share interests and talk about them/engage in them (being vague here), etc. But I think your point is pretty clear and well thought out. And pretty much not arguabl…

Sorry to be so blunt but in this setting, friendly and manipulative are synonyms.

I agree this guy should be looking for other work, but disagree that working relationships are always inherently manipulative.

The big problem here is the bloated management structure, pre-launch vacations and failures to meet targets, all of which are strong signs the decision makers in the company are bad at their job. This implies that decisions about this person's future compensation and role in the company will be made by a committee that does not understand his value. I think that is the problem more than anything else.

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