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Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

sentient.ai

231–240 of 242 posts

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we expect there to be any mathematical foundation to this stuff? It's quite possible to imagine an alternate universe where GAs and neural nets don't work. Because they have different datasets that don't fit the structure of NNs well. Or problems that happen to not be solvable by the search strategies of GAs. In fact we have many such problems in our own universe. I can give many examples of things NNs and…

> Why should we expect there to be any mathematical foundation to this stuff? i would be surprised that "this stuff" would be exception to the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics. mathematics underpins virtually every observed phenomenon, including theoretical physics, computer science, economics. in fact, the mathematical structure of any physical theory often points the way to further advances in that theory…

No, there is no mathematical foundation for most of that stuff. No mathematician can prove that gravity exists. You can describe the laws of physics with mathematical expressions. Just as you can describe machine learning algorithms with mathematical expressions. But you can't prove the laws of physics are true with math. And I don't expect anyone to ever prove that Machine Learning should work.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#232

Having studied this extensively back when they were called Genetic Algorithms, I would like to offer a few insights. 1) One of the biggest reasons they fell out of favor for more "mathematical" approaches was that no one could really explain why exactly they worked. It makes sense on the surface that "survival of the fittest" and doing something akin to multiple stochastic gradient descents would work, but no one has…

I pretty much agree with what you said, but DL (and even more deep reinforcement learning) is really computationally expensive

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#233

Having studied this extensively back when they were called Genetic Algorithms, I would like to offer a few insights. 1) One of the biggest reasons they fell out of favor for more "mathematical" approaches was that no one could really explain why exactly they worked. It makes sense on the surface that "survival of the fittest" and doing something akin to multiple stochastic gradient descents would work, but no one has…

Another reason is for most demos and examples of Genetic Algorithms, that Simulated Annealing is almost always more optimal.

Let me first say that I'm not certain this is the case for the purposes lined out in the article, because I'm not entirely sure what they're trying to do.

Unless you have a crossover operator that really makes sense for your fitness function and problem, a GA is basically nothing but a bunch of SA processes running in parallel. In that case you would prefer SA, because it has less hyperparameters to tune, convergence is better defined, and there are proven methods to tune the hyperparameters.

It's not that hard if you have a working GA optimizer, to test how well it does with SA as a baseline, because the algorithms are fairly similar. Unfortunately not many demos do this baseline comparison and I'm pretty sure most of them won't do significantly better with GAs.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#234
post #198
post #59

The only thing EAs have going for them is a biological metaphor, the magic of Darwinian evolution, fountain of endless novelty. But, modern science shows evolution does not really work in a Darwinian manner, so thus the metaphor ends.

> The only thing EAs have going for them ... is the ability to optimise a black-box objective.

No free lunch theorem!

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#235
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one could really explain why exactly they worked That is the first time I have heard that claim, and since we have a large body of knowledge describing how evolution works (that sampo description is one the clearest I've seen) and how it can be optimized, I imagine you are talking about some other problem. Is it about predicting the causes of some learned trait? Is there some interesting research on that?

They are referring to Genetic Algorithms. There was a theory called the "building block hypothesis" but no one could prove it (turned out it was impossible to prove). The field was sort of run on hand waving for several decades.

The fact that it is impossible to prove is what is new to me.

Even more because it's clearly not a property of genetic algorithms in general, but a very powerful effect that one aims into achieving with genetic algorithms and a good domain modeling. I don't really understand what is the meaning of something like that being impossible to prove.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#236
post #234
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing EAs have going for them ... is the ability to optimise a black-box objective.

No free lunch theorem!

EAs optimise black-box objective functions. NFL prevents them from doing well on all possible objective functions. But rather weak assumptions are enough to evade NFL, for example the assumption that maximal steepness in the objective space is not achieved (there are many others also). It's particularly easy to make such assumptions when the problems arise in our universe (that's the subset of problems we're interested in), because our universe has structure -- see eg Lin and Tegmark.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#237
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sentient employee here. I'll give an example on a problem for which we use evolutionary algorithms: website optimization. Say you want to try many various changes like the title of your page, the color of the background, the position of your buy button etc. We solve this problem by trying out random variations of these websites - like A/B testing with more candidates - and by crossing the best performing ones to crea…

What is the advantage of using evolutionary algos in this case over using something like Thompson Sampling or Contextual Multi-Armed Bandit? ( http://www.kdd.org/kdd2017/papers/view/an-efficient-bandit-a... )

Thanks everybody for your responses. Food for thought :-)

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#238
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming a simpler model, no need for magic, because so far I don't see what behavior/data this simple model cannot explain. > Clearly it's not that simple or easy, or we would have done it. We don't have the computational power yet. Not to mention the vast amount of development required. Think of the climate models, that are huge (millions of lines of code), but they're still nowhere near complete enough, and th…

If intelligence/sentience isn't magic for you, then consider existence. How strange it is to be anything at all.

Yes, indeed, but that's philosophy at its best. Thinking about nothing or everything. Zero and/or infinite complexity.

No predictive power whatsoever.

Also, I'm amazed by consciousness, by reasoning, by our cognition, by intelligence, how we apply it, day-to-day, from pure math to messy, but useful engineering, through the ugliness of realpolitik, and the beautiful and dreadful human tangle that our civilization is. The contrasts, the why-s. (Consider the so stark difference between US and Mexico especially the border towns, which is of course deceiving, as the problems don't stop at the border, the cities, states, nations are connected. The warring cartels, the corruption, the hopeless have-nots, the dealers, the addicts, the war on drugs/terror/smuggling/slavery/yaddayadda, the DEA, ATF, their foreign counterparts, the policy going against the market, the hard on crime ideology, the big data vs gerrymandering case just on the Supreme Court's plate, the pure math and reasoning behind all that again, are all connected, just harder to frame them in a "deep" picture.)

But so far, none involves any actual irreducible complexity. No magical formula, just layers upon layers of complexity and fine-tuning.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't fully understand life. We don't even understand all the proteins. We sure don't understand a single neuron. We understand many small and big things about life, yes.

In part I agree with you. The big difference is that we don't understand the fundamental difference between what is alive and what isn't. We have many different ideas about the quality that is called "life" or living. We have no clue about what it is. We have little or no understanding of the complex protocols that occur within a cell. If we did, our standard manufacturing techniques would be vastly different. We can…

It's a spectrum. A rock is non-alive, and a human talking to another human is rather alive. A virus is closer to a rock than a cockroach is to a human newborn in terms of life, but a brain dead patient is probably closer to a tree than to a butterfly, and so on.

We have pretty fine understanding of cells, but our materials science and manufacturing technology is not "vastly parallel incremental molecular", but "big precise drastic pure chunk" based compared to cellular manufacturing. Not to mention protein folding and self-assembling biomachines and so on. We're getting there.

Re: Evolution Is the New Deep Learning

#240
post #189
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming a simpler model, no need for magic, because so far I don't see what behavior/data this simple model cannot explain. > Clearly it's not that simple or easy, or we would have done it. We don't have the computational power yet. Not to mention the vast amount of development required. Think of the climate models, that are huge (millions of lines of code), but they're still nowhere near complete enough, and th…

> We don't have the computational power yet Certainly you do realise that this has been a moving goalpost for half a century? It seems that lately people started to avoid giving a concrete estimate of the power required, though. It was so easy in the 90-s! «Human visual/verbal system processes gygabytes per second/has n flops to the xth» or the like. Well, now we have that and more; how come a deeper modeling, a fine…

I know that people constantly underestimated the required computing power, as more and more finer details of the brain and cognition are unraveling. That doesn't make my argument invalid. I don't think we need to do a full brain emulation. That's the worst case scenario.

We're getting pretty good at computer vision, what's lacking is the backend for reasoning, for generating the distributions for object segmentation and scene interpretation. Basically the supervisor. (As unsupervised learning is of course just means that the supervision and goal/utility functions are external/exogenous to the ML system, such as natural selection in case of evolution.)

My example illustrates that yes, we can give an upper bound on molecule by molecule climate modeling, but that's just a large exponential number, not interesting, what we're interested in is useful approximations, which are polynomial, but they being models, they need a lot of special treatment for the edge cases. (Literally the edges of homogeneous structures, like ice-water-air, water-air, water-land, air-land [mountains, big flats, etc] interfaces. And the second order induced effects, like currents, and so on.) That means precise measurements of these effects, and modelling them. (Which would be needed anyway, even if we were to do a back to the basics N-S hydrodynamics model, as there are a lot of parameters to fine-tune.)

For the brain we know the number of neurons, the firing activity, the bandwidth of signals, etc. We can estimate the upper limit in information terms, no biggie, but that doesn't get us [much] closer for the requirements of a realistic implementation.

> Yet we have failed to realistically emulate a worm.

http://openworm.org/getting_started.html#goal seems to be matter of time, not lack of understanding. ( https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm#quickstart ) But maybe I'm not up to date on the issues.

> it's high time to give up on the delusion that more power, naturally coming in the future, will somehow enable a creation of predictive brain model, for this would truly be magic.

a) people are saying exactly this for years, that we have enough data already, we need better theories/models

b) they fail to accept that more computing power and data is the way to test and generate theories.

> The brain is not a Rube Goldberg machine that manages to produce any sort of work simply due to its excessive complexity

A Rube Goldberg machine is simple, just has a lot of simple failure modes. (A trigger fails to trigger the next part, either because the part itself fails, or the interface between parts failed.)

> Its discrete elements aren't really small by today's standards,

If you mean cells, or cortices, agreed.

If you mean functional cognitive constituents, I also agree, but a bit disagree, as they are small parts of a big mind, all interwoven, influencing, inhibiting, motivating, restricting, reinforcing, calibrating, guiding, enhancing each other to certain degrees.

So in that sense consciousness is a big matrix which gives the coefficients for the coupling "constants" between parts. A magical formula if you will. But not more magical, than the SM of physics.

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