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Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

nautil.us

221–230 of 360 posts

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike Google, Microsoft tracks and profiles you online via their search engine Citation seriously needed. “Unlike Google?” Who are you trying to kid?

Are you seriously suggesting that Bing doesn't track users? Who are you trying to kid. Microsoft is able to recognize the same user across devices by using an anonymous identifier (MSID). The MSID is used to describe a persistent unique identifier used by Microsoft Advertising to deliver targeted ads and recognize the same user across devices and Microsoft services. Customers have a choice to opt out of targeted adve…

What on Earth? My comment takes issue with your claim that Bing is “unlike Google.” Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising, not “unlike Bing.” Why are you trying to paint Microsoft as exceptional here?

> We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads.

https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/#infouse

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting that Bing doesn't track users? Who are you trying to kid. Microsoft is able to recognize the same user across devices by using an anonymous identifier (MSID). The MSID is used to describe a persistent unique identifier used by Microsoft Advertising to deliver targeted ads and recognize the same user across devices and Microsoft services. Customers have a choice to opt out of targeted adve…

What on Earth? My comment takes issue with your claim that Bing is “unlike Google.” Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising, not “unlike Bing.” Why are you trying to paint Microsoft as exceptional here? > We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use…

>Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising

So does Bing.

Finally, as described in the Display of Advertising section of this document, we may use search query data for the purpose of personalizing the ads we display to you as you use our services or those of our advertising partners.

https://www.docracy.com/0fap0koedur/bing-com-privacy-policy-...

>Why are you trying to paint Microsoft as exceptional here?

Microsoft tracks their users using their Bing and Yahoo search engine.

Microsoft sends vast amounts of Windows telemetry back to their servers. The services sending this telemetry data cannot be turned off.

Microsoft has broken into the accounts of their users. https://mashable.com/2014/03/28/microsoft-hotmail-email-priv...

Microsoft operates data centers in China that are run by Chinese state run companies that allow the Chinese government to examine any user data they want.

Microsoft Azure operated by 21Vianet (Azure China 21Vianet) is a physically separated instance of cloud services located in mainland China, independently operated and transacted by Shanghai Blue Cloud Technology Co., Ltd. ("21Vianet"), a wholly owned subsidiary of Beijing 21Vianet Broadband Data Center Co., Ltd.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/china-welcome

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd be surprised how much more similar Google is to these things. They absolutely bought and bribes their way into their monopoly reach, by paying to be the default on everyone's browsers, having other software bake Google Toolbar into their install wizards (later replaced by Chrome), etc. Also, given the HTTPS Everywhere push (mostly led by Google), usually only sites like Google and Facebook get to see yo…

Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for. Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads. ISPs are for inter…

Google and ISPs both have monopolies, but ISPs have local monopolies and Google has global monopolies. In 2017, Google wasn't just "a" lobbyist, they were "the biggest" lobbyist, dwarfing any ISP's.

When you say "Google and Facebook aside", it feels like you are literally missing the entire point... You have an elephant in your sinking boat, and you're worried about the weight of the dog.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on Earth? My comment takes issue with your claim that Bing is “unlike Google.” Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising, not “unlike Bing.” Why are you trying to paint Microsoft as exceptional here? > We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use…

>Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising So does Bing. Finally, as described in the Display of Advertising section of this document, we may use search query data for the purpose of personalizing the ads we display to you as you use our services or those of our advertising partners. https://www.docracy.com/0fap0koedur/bing-com-privacy-policy-... >Why are you trying to paint Micros…

Oh my God, why are you acting like you are disagreeing with me when you are now saying exactly what my original comment said?

"Unlike Google, Microsoft tracks and profiles you online via their search engine and through all of the "telemetry" Windows sends back to them."

This is your original comment. Do you see how you are disagreeing with yourself now?

"So does Bing." "Google’s privacy policy explicitly allows them to use queries for advertising, not “unlike Bing.”"

The first quote is from your comment, the second is from mine. Where on Earth do you see disagreement?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been forwarding all outgoing connections on port 80 (and a selection of other commonly-unencrypted ports) through a VPN (in the router) for a while now - but leaving all other ports (including most importantly 443) connecting directly. It feels like a good compromise between privacy and speed.

What router are you using? I would like to do this for my parents but I don't want a full blown pfsense box as a requirement.

Asus Merlin is nice.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd be surprised how much more similar Google is to these things. They absolutely bought and bribes their way into their monopoly reach, by paying to be the default on everyone's browsers, having other software bake Google Toolbar into their install wizards (later replaced by Chrome), etc. Also, given the HTTPS Everywhere push (mostly led by Google), usually only sites like Google and Facebook get to see yo…

Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for. Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads. ISPs are for inter…

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for. Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads. ISPs are for inter…

Google and ISPs both have monopolies, but ISPs have local monopolies and Google has global monopolies. In 2017, Google wasn't just "a" lobbyist, they were "the biggest" lobbyist, dwarfing any ISP's. When you say "Google and Facebook aside", it feels like you are literally missing the entire point... You have an elephant in your sinking boat, and you're worried about the weight of the dog.

We know that the companies are big and possibly seen as monopolies, the question was still unanswered though.

Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP?

If you do like your ISP tracking and selling your private data, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is no place for ISPs to be evading privacy and selling your data. It isn't about competition.

I expect tracking from free services I am not paying for that my data is the product. I expect tracking from companies that make their money from ad/marketing to do that.

I do not expect tracking and privacy invasions from my ISP, my front door to the internet.

My ISP is also not a small dog, it is a massive media company and a monopoly in addition to my provider. At least with Google/Facebook you can use DuckDuckGo/bing/etc or other social networks and block Google/Facebook if desired.

I can't route around my ISP, there is no local competition and what competition there is amounts to false competition. From the FCCs own data, most people only have 1 or maybe 2 real competitive ISPs in their area and virtually no competition at 100Mbps, zero options for gigabit [1].

I can easily walk around Google and Facebook and block them, my ISP is a big big mean dog because I am paying for my privacy invasion, services that run on the internet are corgis and they are free but fun to play so they attracted people's data by providing something people want. They do both lobby but that is primarily because ISPs and others do so heavily and you must compete at that level or lose.

> FCC report finds almost no broadband competition at 100Mbps speeds [1]

> Even at 25Mbps, 43 percent of the US had zero ISPs or just one. [1]

[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/fcc-r...

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#228

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Uh, Google and Mozilla and a handful of organizations are converting all web traffic to HTTPS through subtle manipulation of standards and user interface. They even proxy mobile traffic from their search engine. ISPs can't even see what IP you're visiting because it's all fronted by CloudFlare. Even your DNS is being hidden by an HTTPS tunnel in the browser. Your ISP soon won't be able to see anything you do online.…

Next from Comcast: You must install this privacy-busting add-on to "optimize your experience".

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#229

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Uh, Google and Mozilla and a handful of organizations are converting all web traffic to HTTPS through subtle manipulation of standards and user interface. They even proxy mobile traffic from their search engine. ISPs can't even see what IP you're visiting because it's all fronted by CloudFlare. Even your DNS is being hidden by an HTTPS tunnel in the browser. Your ISP soon won't be able to see anything you do online.…

They still see every DNS request.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#230
Facebook is less trustworthy than Google.

Facebook has a very full history overflowing with deceit, misdirect, lies theft and not really giving a toss when getting found out.

Google has tripped up once or twice and actively tries to fix its problems.

I find Google a lot less scary than Facebook.

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