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The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

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Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#51

Post by Confusion »

mburney wrote: post #22

This kind of "awkwardness" is felt as a result of being stuck in your head. It's only awkward if you're worried about making a mistake. But you can relax, you're allowed to make mistakes. No one except you really cares if you said something stupid or rude or pointless.

  No one except you really cares if you said something [..] rude
I don't think that's true and I think that it shows that you have never actually broken off an unwanted conversation by being honest. If you do that and, for instance, say "I'm sorry, but this conversation really doesn't interest me", people will feel insulted. You are forced to beat around the bush.

  [or] stupid or pointless
The fact that you yourself care about those is enough. You don't want to feel forced to say stupid or pointless things.

There are two ways out:

1) Be interested in what people have to say about certain subjects and steer the conversation there. Those subjects have to be general enough that everyone has something to say about them. Sometimes you turn out to be annoying, for instance when you are cross-examining someone about why they are happy with their lives.

2) Accept the fact that people will think you're weird or an asshole. Me, I just stay silent when there's nothing left to say. There's nothing wrong with silence. When the silence lasts long enough, I turn around and walk.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#52

Post by Confusion »

wallflower wrote: post #16
lsc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away wait a second... I do that all the time. what's bad about it?

Was it really nice to meet them? Or are you trying to ditch them? When someone pulls the 'it was nice meeting you' gambit on you - are you relieved or do you like being ditched?

  [..] do you like being ditched?
It's not about liking, but about understanding. I'm often not interested in talking to someone. Because I'm pretty regular, that means that other people often aren't interested in talking to me. That's just a fact of life.

  Was it really nice to meet them?
Autism alert. Such expressions are not meant to be taken literally. As a kid, I used to worry about not raking together the freshly mown grass well enough, because I was asked to rake together all the loose grass and the damned stuff kept slipping. That wasn't perfectionism, but something closer to autism: not understanding that 'raking together all the grass' was in no way meant to imply I had to even try to get all the grass. I used to get into arguments with my father about me being unhappy with my job of washing the car, because it wasn't actually completely clean. If you have such a problem, now would be a good time to start identifying these situations; it'll save you a lot of trouble.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#53

Post by jdminhbg »

wazoox wrote: post #37

That reminds me that apparently so many people actually seem to like going to places like bars and hang there for hours keeping on completely pointless conversations and drinking beer. Really, I don't get it. Twice a year is Okay, but twice a week? I'd be bored to death. Can anyone explain this social mystery?

Most people go to bars with friends, not slight acquaintances, and have fun in-depth conversations, not pointless conversations. Most of the situations depicted in the cartoon are the result of unintentional meetings.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#54

Post by narrator »

loewenskind wrote: post #41
narrator wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In non-dating recreational situations you can actually pull off level 4 if you're disciplined. For instance, if you go to a sailing class. Only talk about sailing and learning sailing. Put all your brain into it and keep out of lower level talk. People will find you very mysterious and interesting because you didn't lay all your cards on the table so they could just put you in a bucket.

Personally I would find a person who did this really boring (no apparent life outside of the activity).

Think about the boring guy at the sailing class. Later on you find out he's a doctor, or a builder, or a fraud investigator or a republican or likes watching hockey or went to college at Stanford. What if he didn't tell you any of that until you had known him for a couple of weeks or even months during the course of that sailing class vs if he had told you that all up front?

I usually find that nobody's eyes light up and get excited when I tell them I work as a software developer. I'm now a nerd, or too smart, or boring, or a member of the "technical professional" social class.

If I had some really exciting job like being a movie star, I'd be stuck having to repeat answers to the same frequently asked questions every time I met someone new. The idea of the zen levels is to get to know other people first as humans before socially categorizing them. It's about showing them your personality instead of telling them all your credentials up front.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#55

Post by aneth »

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #43
rubyrescue wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle is one of the worst cities in the US, nay, world for this!

I assume you have comprehensive personal experience of everywhere else in the USA, nay, the world, to be able to say this. I'd love to hear of your extensive travel experiences.

I have pretty broad personal experience in the USA and globally. I also have the experience of talking about this with tons of other transplants to Seattle, as well as disgruntled locals, and reading a lot about it. Not much disagreement on this one - Seattle has deep issues with passive aggression and false niceties.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3...

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#56

Post by philwelch »

narrator wrote: post #54
loewenskind wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I would find a person who did this really boring (no apparent life outside of the activity).

Think about the boring guy at the sailing class. Later on you find out he's a doctor, or a builder, or a fraud investigator or a republican or likes watching hockey or went to college at Stanford. What if he didn't tell you any of that until you had known him for a couple of weeks or even months during the course of that sailing class vs if he had told you that all up front? I usually find that nobody's eyes light up…

But when would he tell you those things if he kept at Level 4 all the time? When you just happened to run into him at a hockey match or a Republican meeting?

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#57

Post by estacado »

When at level 4, I try to have the conversation at the door with me inside and the other person outside. Once, I was really tired, but the other person really kept going on and on, I gave several hints that I've had enough, but he just didn't get it, I even said "Okay, It's nice talking, but I need to sleep now." He answered that he understood, but for some reason understanding it didn't make him stop talking. I really didn't care anymore so I just closed the door slowly while still he was talking. And left it at that. My roomate who was watching said I was rude, I said I know and we both laughed.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#58

Post by philwelch »

loewenskind wrote: post #42
lsc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's easier for some people than for others. Especially for introverts, the skill of leaving gracefully is a non-trivial skill that needs to be learned. I mean, most people are capable of saying "fuck you leave me alone you asshole" but usually, you don't want to come off that strong. In most cases, you don't really have any desire to hurt the other person, and hell, you might even want to talk later, or talk about a…

I don't get why "talking politics" is something to so desperately avoid in the US. Many intelligent people just wont talk about leaving mostly the close minded life long party members to be the only voices. Personally I think this is why the political landscape is so awful in the US.

Hi, I'm an intelligent American who occasionally tries talking about politics.

Many otherwise intelligent Americans are monomaniacal nutjobs or partisan hacks when it comes to politics. Of course, many Americans who are not otherwise intelligent are just as bad. People get indoctrinated in a certain political viewpoint and don't have the ability to take on good faith anyone who disagrees with them. As a result of this, it's so difficult to find someone capable of intelligently and thoughtfully discussing political issues that it's rarely worth it.

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#59

Post by hugh3 »

narrator wrote: post #20

Conversation Zen Levels from lowest zen to highest: Level 1: The conversation does not involve talking about your job. This is only acceptable in business network situations. If you are not at a trade show, business event, in an interview or at work you shouldn't talk about work. This is the most pathetic type of small talk, as it immediately puts you in a social class/stereotype bucket. Level 2: The conversation doe…

Doesn't this just reduce to "talk about the weather"? Because if you're not going to talk about anything that isn't in the immediate physical area and isn't in the past, you're reduced to "nice weather today, isn't it?" or perhaps "See that lamp over there? I like that lamp. I don't like that carpet though."

Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment

#60

Post by hugh3 »

wallflower wrote: post #13

It is embarrassing that some of the most otherwise socially capable people do not know the proper technique to extricate yourself from a conversation. First, what you don't do: 1. Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away. Worst case, you've made an enemy. 2. Do not say "I want to go to the buffet/bathroom". They may want to go along with you. What to do: 1. State what you want. "I'd like to go meet thos…

That runs the risk of not extricating yourself. Maybe you go and meet those people over there and your new "friend" comes with you. Turns out those people are boring too, so you have to move on to the next group of people.

Saying "well, if you'll excuse me I'm going to get another drink/some food/whatever" is fine. They won't follow you unless you invite them (or at least they shouldn't), since that's code for "I'm ditching this conversation, bye!"

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