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Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

nautil.us

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Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#151

Post by LeoPanthera »

libdjml wrote: post #147
LeoPanthera wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been forwarding all outgoing connections on port 80 (and a selection of other commonly-unencrypted ports) through a VPN (in the router) for a while now - but leaving all other ports (including most importantly 443) connecting directly. It feels like a good compromise between privacy and speed.

If you’ve got a VPN, why not everything? You’re currently leaking a ton of data via DNS and HTTP certs, aren’t you? You are indeed protected against active content injection, but that’s rarely the problem with a for-pay ISP

> If you’ve got a VPN, why not everything?

Latency through the VPN is worse. It's not super-worse, but it is worse.

> You’re currently leaking a ton of data via DNS and HTTP certs, aren’t you?

I'm putting DNS through the VPN as well, so no.

But HTTPS certs - yes I am. It's a compromise.

> You are indeed protected against active content injection, but that’s rarely the problem with a for-pay ISP

This is literally one of the specific problems I was trying to avoid. My ISP is Comcast (the only choice where I live) and they routinely practice HTTP injection: https://gist.github.com/ryankearney/4146814

It's not just injection, though. With plain HTTP Comcast gets to see the contents of every page I visit, if they want to. And I do not want them to.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#152

Post by jonathanyc »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #121

Is Microsoft scarier than Google? Unlike Google, Microsoft tracks and profiles you online via their search engine and through all of the "telemetry" Windows sends back to them. Also, doesn't Microsoft operate their Azure cloud service in China that is run by a Chinese state run company?

> Unlike Google, Microsoft tracks and profiles you online via their search engine

Citation seriously needed. “Unlike Google?” Who are you trying to kid?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#153

Post by libdjml »

some_account wrote: post #87
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

No. Which company is more powerful with your information? That little ISP who has no real use of it, or Google, the most powerful ad agency with ties to American agencies in the world? You may be able to bypass Google but almost everybody else won't. It's time to open your eyes for what they are.

“That little ISP who has no real use of it”

I would say “that giant ISP corporation who had enough power to lobby the government into changing laws so they can get access to your browsing history to sell”

Which is a little more worrying

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#154

Post by jerheinze »

aurelianito wrote: post #140
jerheinze wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use paid privacy-by-policy systems when you can use free privacy-by-design systems like Tor and i2p?

Latency and throughput

> Latency and throughput

It's not as bad as you're making it seem.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#155

Post by libdjml »

jerheinze wrote: post #137
adam12 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for reminding me about this. I'm seriously thinking about getting a VPN subscription again.

Why use paid privacy-by-policy systems (VPN) when you can use free privacy-by-design systems like Tor and i2p? In fact, even if you use a VPN browser fingerprinting is still an issue unless you use something like the Tor Browser.

two reasons: speed and security. Speed is self explanatory, security may not be obvious. I don’t believe Firefox to be on par with Chrome. It was years behind getting a sandbox, and doesn’t appear to have the engineering or QA focus on security that Edge/Chrome do.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#156

Post by wu-ikkyu »

pnloyd wrote: post #82
Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

A lot of people seem to default to a really cynical view of tech businesses. I share this same same sentiment with the parent comment where I feel like Google "has my back" and I know for certain there products do make my life easier. This guilty until proven innocent attitude that many people hold is getting kinda old. Giving them your data is the price you pay for their service. If this doesn't seem fair to you the…

>I share this same same sentiment with the parent comment where I feel like Google "has my back" and I know for certain there products do make my life easier.

I've never understood how people can have such a religious-like faith in a corporation they have never seen the inside of and in which they know not a single person who works there. Gullibility perhaps?

>This guilty until proven innocent attitude that many people hold is getting kinda old.

Do you care at all about security? Because that is the fundamental assumption behind taking any security precaution whatsoever in life, whether it's putting a lock on your door or not trusting a faceless corporation with billions of the most detailed psychological profiles in history.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#157

Post by jonathanyc »

gerash wrote: post #150

I personally prefer Google over FB. I haven't deleted my FB account because that's my contact list of some sort but I am not very active. I guess I prefer the Snapchat model where what you post doesn't stick around forever. I'm not fond of the aggressive, greedy bro attitude of FB in moving fast and breaking things. On the other hand I use Google services all the time. Folks whining about data collection should reali…

> If you're complaining about seeing ads and are not using the paid GSuite version or non google services for email for example, it means you don't care enough and perhaps should stop whining about a free service you've opted to use.

This and you characterizing people opposing Facebook and Google as “whining” does not contribute to the discussion. If you think not paying for a service revokes your right to complain about it, why are you even comparing Google and Facebook at all? Your comment is neither insightful nor consistent.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#158

Post by voidmain0001 »

hueving wrote: post #143
LeoPanthera wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been forwarding all outgoing connections on port 80 (and a selection of other commonly-unencrypted ports) through a VPN (in the router) for a while now - but leaving all other ports (including most importantly 443) connecting directly. It feels like a good compromise between privacy and speed.

What router are you using? I would like to do this for my parents but I don't want a full blown pfsense box as a requirement.

Could you use PiHole and OpenVPN to accomplish what you want at your parents'place? https://www.reddit.com/r/pihole/comments/48zp16/pihole_and_v...

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#159

Post by libdjml »

ultimoo wrote: post #68
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Sorry to sidetrack here -- but any good recommendations for paid VPNs?

Pay for a digital ocean/aws/whatever minimally sized instance and run algo: https://github.com/trailofbits/algo

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#160

Post by eli_gottlieb »

joe_the_user wrote: post #26
sykh wrote: post #8

What is scary is the unregulated way in which massive amounts of data can be used to sway public opinion so easily. What is even scarier than this is the way in which those in power can use massive amounts of data to sway public opinion without oversight. The very notion of a republican form of government may end up needing to be reanalyzed. Forget concentrating on Google or Facebook. There is a larger concern. If mu…

The framing of the situation is kind of twisted imo. If we talking about politics, it seems entirely reasonable that a politician would want know what their constituents were thinking about, would tell their constituents what the constituents wanted to here and go to Washington and do what they promised. That's democracy - obviously, this democracy isn't in very good shape. But it's hard claim to that having a very f…

I don't think that's how authority works. In a workplace, I don't get to collect secret data on my bosses to see what they want and then say it's so I can better serve them.

If the voters are the bosses, then the politicians should live under surveillance by their voters, while we voters keep everything secret from our subordinate elected officials.

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