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Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

thestranger.com

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Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but even as a single, young, healthy person, $90k wouldn't feel very comfortable here. WTF???? Where the hell does your money go? I felt _very_ comfortable when I was making $75k and living in lower Manhattan walking distance from my job near wall street, in a market rate apartment I easily found. And I participated in the culture of going out all the time, and built up modest 401k savings. Really, where on earth d…

Were you saving for retirement at the time? I'm pretty conservative with spending, but when you consider you should be putting away at least 18k/year (presumably via 401k, + employer match) if you ever expect to retire, and in manhattan you'll probably be spending at least 1500k/month for rent, plus you've got to pay for food and transportation... $90k/year in NYC pre-tax -> ~$60k/year in NYC post-tax. State and loca…

>> Food is going to cost you at >> least $200/month

I don’t think you’ve actually totaled up how much your food costs. It’s a lot more than $200 per person, even if you cook everything at home.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One couple choosing to live in an RV doesn't make a good argument for that.

Agree! Here's a better data point, where the Seattle mayor says as much (while announcing $100 million investment in affordable housing because there is so little). “Too many long-time residents are getting locked out and pushed out of Seattle,” Durkan said in a statement. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-t... That's why it's not the best idea to use subsidies to lure one of the largest tech…

That's also a poor argument for turning away businesses. The problem appears to be not allowing more housing sooner, not that you're helping provide tens of thousands of new jobs. Plus, there's tons of affordable housing a very short drive from Seattle. You should really do more/better research.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. There is a huge difference in having bought just three or four years ago versus now. The median price in the city has skyrocketed to $777k and on the Eastside it's just short of $1 million. Even in Shoreline, I don't see anything for under $400k on Redfin. "Just north of Seattle" used to mean Shoreline or Lake Forest Park. These days, it's the Alderwood side of Lynnwood and almost up to Paine Field. (Also, th…

No offense, but there's only so specific I'm going to get about my income with a bunch of people on ycombinator.... Hackernews if you prefer. I'm not throwing the specifics around the internet, at all =)

I didn’t ask you your income. I asked your location and when you bought your house.

To each his own though.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you saving for retirement at the time? I'm pretty conservative with spending, but when you consider you should be putting away at least 18k/year (presumably via 401k, + employer match) if you ever expect to retire, and in manhattan you'll probably be spending at least 1500k/month for rent, plus you've got to pay for food and transportation... $90k/year in NYC pre-tax -> ~$60k/year in NYC post-tax. State and loca…

>> Food is going to cost you at >> least $200/month I don’t think you’ve actually totaled up how much your food costs. It’s a lot more than $200 per person, even if you cook everything at home.

Oh I'm aware -- I just mean that I think, bare minimum, a person could get by on around $200/month worth of food. Buy the cheapest ground meat possible, beans, and the cheapest vegetables available and just eat chili all the time and you can stretch that pretty far. Add rice into the mix and you've almost got some variety!

I was trying to be conservative here because food costs vary so much from person to person. I have a lot of friends who eat out probably at least once per day on average, and friends who never eat out. Friends who buy the nicest cuts of meat and friends who try to keep things as cheap as possible. I'd guess it varies a lot more than rent.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#75
post #14

I joke that the way to afford rent in LA is to live in your car. I grew up there and last visit I had one friend who sleeps in his van when he sublets his apartment and another who was looking to buy a van to live rent free for a while. It's amazing that we haven't started building upward yet.

I worked with someone that was living on an boat he had purchased (for not much) in Marina del Rey. He would commute by motorcycle (much cheaper than a car) and was probably making a minimum of $50k-60k. Seems like a smart way to save money if you can make the space sacrifice.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but even as a single, young, healthy person, $90k wouldn't feel very comfortable here. WTF???? Where the hell does your money go? I felt _very_ comfortable when I was making $75k and living in lower Manhattan walking distance from my job near wall street, in a market rate apartment I easily found. And I participated in the culture of going out all the time, and built up modest 401k savings. Really, where on earth d…

Were you saving for retirement at the time? I'm pretty conservative with spending, but when you consider you should be putting away at least 18k/year (presumably via 401k, + employer match) if you ever expect to retire, and in manhattan you'll probably be spending at least 1500k/month for rent, plus you've got to pay for food and transportation... $90k/year in NYC pre-tax -> ~$60k/year in NYC post-tax. State and loca…

Let me start by apologizing for an insulting tone. Your reply was so thoughtful and constructive I was chagrined, so thanks. It's not about you, I'm just angry about a society that tries hard to trick people into thinking a happy life is much more expensive than it really is.

That said most of your assumptions about my budget are wrong which explains why we disagreed to begin with:

1. Yes I was saving for retirement, like $6k, but half was an employer 401k match so it did not come from my budget. It's tight but enough. I won't have to live near an expensive business district when I'm retired, obviously. Where do you get your 18k figure from BTW? Also, 100pct of any raises after that went into savings, but my point was it was easy to live comfortably before then... Also, why not factor Social Security? It's estimated to be 79% funded so yiu could just subtract 21%. I am slightly more conservative and assume I'll only get he standard SSI payment (the bsre minimum you get if you did not work at all) whixh was about $700 a few years ago

2. It took modest effort to find a market rate $1700 1.5br I shared with my SO at the time, for $850 of rent. If you don't believe it was relatively easy to find i can go into more detail. Thr apart was fine. It only lacked meaningless luxuries like the latest most stylish bathroom tiles or track lighting or whatever inane things they're cominguo with today to part renters from their hard earned money

3. I did not say i worked in LES. You assumed. I worked in the fidi, by battery park. 45 min walk, 15 min bike ride, 20min subway.

4. Anyone who doesn't use the subway roundtrip 6 days a week is wasting money if they get the monthly pass. I like to call it the worst deal in NYC. I walked or biked most of the time, so I spent little on subway commuting. (Ironically, I occasionally took a taxi, and still spent less than if I had a subway pass)

5. Furniture, clothes... Uh these are cheap to the point of irrelevance if you buy secondhand, but very expensive if you're a sucker....

6. Not much travel. I strategically chose to live in a city in which I would not feel much urge to travel because I can find travel experiences just a borough or less away... Or a bit further out, other parts of the Northeast cheaply accessible by train or rented car. The Northeast is very diverse terrain, with climate varying from DC to Vermont, mountains, beaches, towns, villages, cities, a real swell place. I think that was wise, given how much people spend on vacations when they go distant places which, since they can only afford a brief time, they then barely get a chance to learn about more superficially than one could through wikipedia :(

7. Yeah I paid about $400 a month in loans.

8. Cars and pets and kids are luxuries. I couldn't afford them then but I was very happy. Further raises though, could go towards saving for such luxuries (and eventually did in the case of a car)

9. This was 3 years ago. It's still possible today. The trick is i was spending much less on many things than you thought.

Sorry again for the insulting tone!, it's not about you, but to the many people who will never make that much income and would give an arm for it, it's insulting to pretend it's an inadequate income. Its only inadequate if you choose to make it inadequate.

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you saving for retirement at the time? I'm pretty conservative with spending, but when you consider you should be putting away at least 18k/year (presumably via 401k, + employer match) if you ever expect to retire, and in manhattan you'll probably be spending at least 1500k/month for rent, plus you've got to pay for food and transportation... $90k/year in NYC pre-tax -> ~$60k/year in NYC post-tax. State and loca…

>> Food is going to cost you at >> least $200/month I don’t think you’ve actually totaled up how much your food costs. It’s a lot more than $200 per person, even if you cook everything at home.

I think you can still cut that budget in half. ( What are you cooking that takes up the most cost? Meat maybe?) I spend too much on food these days because I can and am lazy but when I was on top of it we spent $200 a month to feed TWO people with healthy tasty food. On that budget obviously it's just groceries and produce, no takeout or beverages or meat

Also, i found nyc and manhattan to not be much more expensive for groceries than central arkansas or NJ, my other adult reference points, contrary to popular belief

Re: Seattle's New Normal: Homelessness Is Now Middle Class

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Food is going to cost you at >> least $200/month I don’t think you’ve actually totaled up how much your food costs. It’s a lot more than $200 per person, even if you cook everything at home.

Oh I'm aware -- I just mean that I think, bare minimum, a person could get by on around $200/month worth of food. Buy the cheapest ground meat possible, beans, and the cheapest vegetables available and just eat chili all the time and you can stretch that pretty far. Add rice into the mix and you've almost got some variety! I was trying to be conservative here because food costs vary so much from person to person. I h…

Agree entirely, on a bean oat potato egg and vegetable diet, you'll be healthy, eating fairly tasty, and spend maybe $100 / month. (Not sure how you got $200, my experience was different?

Food costs can be much higher if you choose to indulge in luxury, but those are all choices. You don't need to eat out or eat any meat at all. I sure enjoy it, but needs first, wants second.

The original topic was how much money you need, not want

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