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Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

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Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At fault for what exactly, Trump getting elected? I still don't understand what we know today that anyone sort of paying attention didn't expect a year ago, or even five years ago.

I was thinking about the mere leakage of the data itself, but you make a good point. I pretty quickly figured out the nature of Facebook years ago and deleted mine. But all the people coming out of the woodwork now to hate on Facebook all of a sudden , you have to assume 1) they accepted all the things about Facebook that we all knew, including the use or misuse of data, and 2) what made them finally object was Faceb…

I understand this line of reasoning from a butt-hurt nerd perspective, but surely we can agree that it's a good thing that the consequences of 'all this' is finally hitting the mainstream?

And if so, what is the value of such an attitude other than some kind of petty 'told you so' need? Do we demand badges for our wokeness?

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#62
post #5

Too late...

Raiding has to come with a sufficient reason for those raided to believe the raiding party already has at least a portion of the material, either obtained through interception or inside sources. The idea is that the people being raided will hand over as much as possible because it’s in their own best interest - knowing that anything they don’t produce may be in the material already obtained, making them liable for de…

How much of that relies on the raided party to have a desire to remain in business and to avoid criminal charges?

I can't help but feel that those individuals who really 'matter' in this situation have insulated themselves appropriately from CA as a corporate entity that whatever happens to CA specifically is just a minor inconvenience.

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The historical record of the left is extremely pro-state, pro surveillance I think the problem with your comment is that you're flat-out misrepresenting the 'reeeally left wing'. There are plenty of 'leftist' movements that are just as opposed to 'the state' as they are to our corporate overlords. Arguing otherwise is either plain stupidity or intentional misrepresentation.

Railing against "the state" or "our corporate overlords" is not a mature political position, but merely unfocussed, reflection-free rage that gets tooled / channeled by political organisers and activists on the left and right, not to mention commercially exploited by the Facebooks of this world, whence Zuckerberg's "Dumb Fucks".

> Railing against "the state" or "our corporate overlords" is not a mature political position

Why not? Historically anarchists played a mentionable role in this whole leftist thing.

EDIT: Also, could you elaborate on what you mean with 'a mature position'? I've found that kind of statement to be an effective but dishonest way to dismiss things.

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crackdown on free speech / Section 230 legislative changes is all part of this reining in of the 'information merchants'. https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230 Expect the launch of a shiny new 'social network' foundationed in 'safe' cryptocurrency commerce and led by an unknown fresh faced kid who 'invented it in his dorm room' and took no money from Russian offshore mob oligarchs...

Sorry I don't quite follow your comment. What does free speech have to do with unregulated, unconsented mass surveillance and violation of end user privacy? That "new" social network already exists. It's called Snapchat. I think it's an open question whether social networks will even continue to exist in their current form. There was a time when people connected over Yahoo Chat and AIM...

'What does free speech have to do with unregulated, unconsented mass surveillance and violation of end user privacy?'

the original legislation that enabled the modern web 2.0 platforms to exist was Section 230. Now that logic looks set to be struck down. https://www.law.com/therecorder/2018/03/21/senate-overwhelmi... I suggested a new more invasive platform will launch for deeper and more covert mass surveillance in light of GDPR in europe and now the end of the FB and Google gravy train when Section 230 changes makes the platform companies liable for what you say when you exercise your free speech in the USA...

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#65
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about the mere leakage of the data itself, but you make a good point. I pretty quickly figured out the nature of Facebook years ago and deleted mine. But all the people coming out of the woodwork now to hate on Facebook all of a sudden , you have to assume 1) they accepted all the things about Facebook that we all knew, including the use or misuse of data, and 2) what made them finally object was Faceb…

I understand this line of reasoning from a butt-hurt nerd perspective, but surely we can agree that it's a good thing that the consequences of 'all this' is finally hitting the mainstream? And if so, what is the value of such an attitude other than some kind of petty 'told you so' need? Do we demand badges for our wokeness?

I don't claim my attitude has value.

It's fine if it hits the mainstream, but if it's because of Trump, and not because of what Facebook is, then it will end up being just another half-assed initiative by only half the population - the half that happens to disagree with one flash-in-the-pan, here-today-gone-tomorrow, and ineffective-to-boot, President.

I'm among those who think the world would probably be better off without both Facebook and Trump, but the consensus out there in the world doesn't agree with that. They elected Trump and continue to make Facebook rich. Somewhat counter-intuitively, there is really not a lot of fodder there for feeling superior about oneself.

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is historically accurate to identify the extreme left with the ComIntern, i.e. the Soviet communist party, ruled during his lifetime by Stalin. No, it is absolutely not.

I invite you to defend your claim. Start by asking yourself which non-fringe socialist/communist party was not using the Leninist model of organisation, and which was not a member of the ComIntern and its successors? Which did not receive funding and ideological schooling in the Soviet Union? You have an uphill struggle against history against you.

How would you define 'fringe', and how does this not include views that are less pro-state?

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Railing against "the state" or "our corporate overlords" is not a mature political position, but merely unfocussed, reflection-free rage that gets tooled / channeled by political organisers and activists on the left and right, not to mention commercially exploited by the Facebooks of this world, whence Zuckerberg's "Dumb Fucks".

> Railing against "the state" or "our corporate overlords" is not a mature political position Why not? Historically anarchists played a mentionable role in this whole leftist thing. EDIT: Also, could you elaborate on what you mean with 'a mature position'? I've found that kind of statement to be an effective but dishonest way to dismiss things.

The anarchists, qua bombings, played a potent role in 19th, and early 20th century politics, but not a good one.

Politically, anarchists are really quite different from the socialist/communist tradition:

- Anarchists: reject the state

- Socialists/communists: reject capitalism

Naturally there could be overlap, and indeed there is a well-known tradition of anarcho-communism [1] which was especially potent in the Spanish Revolution of 1936 (note that there were bitter fights between anarchists and the Stalinists), but at the same time, it's difficult to reconcile the philo-capitalism of the libertarian wing of anarchism with the socialist tradition. Likewise, it's difficult to reconcile the philo-stateism of the socialist tradition with anarchism.

As to "mature": as a first approximation, I'd say, having a written, elaborate and communicable theory behind one's political actions, one that has survived multiple round of (friendly) critique. A mature political position includes reflection on the nature of political power, the shape of politial organisation, and political activism, and clear end goals with reasons why the desired end-goals are likely to come about. A mature political position also contains an understanding of other political positions, including those of one's political adversaries. An prime example of a mature political position is Marx. As an example of political immaturity, I'd point to myself when I was 19. I was nothing but an angry, raging young person, who railed against "the system", wanted to "stick it to The Man" and save the world. But I would not have been able to explain why, in way that I would have found plausible.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#68
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand this line of reasoning from a butt-hurt nerd perspective, but surely we can agree that it's a good thing that the consequences of 'all this' is finally hitting the mainstream? And if so, what is the value of such an attitude other than some kind of petty 'told you so' need? Do we demand badges for our wokeness?

I don't claim my attitude has value. It's fine if it hits the mainstream, but if it's because of Trump, and not because of what Facebook is , then it will end up being just another half-assed initiative by only half the population - the half that happens to disagree with one flash-in-the-pan, here-today-gone-tomorrow, and ineffective-to-boot, President. I'm among those who think the world would probably be better off…

I see your point. It's depressing, but still.

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Railing against "the state" or "our corporate overlords" is not a mature political position Why not? Historically anarchists played a mentionable role in this whole leftist thing. EDIT: Also, could you elaborate on what you mean with 'a mature position'? I've found that kind of statement to be an effective but dishonest way to dismiss things.

The anarchists, qua bombings, played a potent role in 19th, and early 20th century politics, but not a good one. Politically, anarchists are really quite different from the socialist/communist tradition: - Anarchists: reject the state - Socialists/communists: reject capitalism Naturally there could be overlap, and indeed there is a well-known tradition of anarcho-communism [1] which was especially potent in the Spani…

Thank you for elaborating. Truly.

Is there any way I could continue this conversation via email or some other form of communication? I very much would like to pick your brain on some of this in a more personal form.

EDIT: my email is my username at gmail.com

Re: Cambridge Analytica raided by UK data watchdog

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I invite you to defend your claim. Start by asking yourself which non-fringe socialist/communist party was not using the Leninist model of organisation, and which was not a member of the ComIntern and its successors? Which did not receive funding and ideological schooling in the Soviet Union? You have an uphill struggle against history against you.

How would you define 'fringe', and how does this not include views that are less pro-state?

Fringe is clearly a vague predicate. One way of defining Fringe is via the number of followers that can be mobilised for political action. E.g. in the UK the Tories, and Labour are not fringe, but CISTA (Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol) is. In the Weimar Republic the KPD was not fringe, but the Socialist League was.
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