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Game Workers Unite

gameworkersunite.org

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Re: Game Workers Unite

#71

Post by door3 »

briandear wrote: post #58
49531 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All unions have concrete ways to make people's lives better. That's why they exist. This website glosses over them but they are pretty basic. Things like open salaries, control over agile process, overtime for on-call, overtime pay for crunch times, more control over hiring / firing.

Why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else? If I am better than the next person and I am a better negotiator, why should my salary be identical to the lazy fuck that has the same number of years of experience? The mistake of these Marxist organizations is that they assume that workers are interchangeable parts. Maybe on an assembly line that is true, but engineering software or hardware or designing t…

> Why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else? If I am better than the next person and I am a better negotiator, why should my salary be identical to the lazy fuck that has the same number of years of experience?

Why do you have disdain for other workers, who largely share your economic and political interests?

Re: Game Workers Unite

#72

Post by briandear »

theyinwhy wrote: post #35
humanrebar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are reactionary organizations. They tend to create and enforce rules around how things work now . Unions don't like it if new technology lets two workers do the work of forty.

I don't think it is about technology. In general, unions don't like people to get fired (without proper compensation). If new tech does more work for the company but no one gets fired I see no reason why unions would have anything against it. However, the whole firing topic is really only filling up a fraction of unions' time. Unions' main tasks are overwatching safety regulations, crunch times, etc... so that the ac…

Ok. We have automated the build process. We don’t need you anymore. Thanks for your service, here’s two weeks’ severance.

A union would go nuts in that scenario. Which then supports the theory that unions would oppose technology that improved efficiency since they would care more about the protecting the production input than they care about optimizing the production output.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#73

Post by vvanders »

briandear wrote: post #59
vvanders wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally software engineers have a better pay(30-50%) and work-life balance than the game industry as a whole. While the tech is similar the project cycles are usually quite different so I don't know if one-size-fits-all would get splintered by different concerns.

If the game industry is so rough, then why don’t workers quit and go work in non-game software or design? It’s because they CHOOSE to work on games and there are a lot of people that are willing to take lower pay and tougher conditions because they want to work in gaming. The implication being made that game devs are some kind of sweatshop slaves is ridiculous.

Wow, lot to unpack there.

The thing is they generally do quit, if you look at Gamasutra's yearly industry survey you'll see a huge bimodal distribution of less than 3 years and 10+ years. The average industry career ends up being about 3 years.

Here's a situation that I saw a lot when I was in the industry:

1. Get a new gig in a different town(usually because the previous studio cratered). Sell your house, move your family and get settled because this studio seems like it's being run sanely.

2. 4-6mo later crunch time hits. Mandated 80hr/week with 6-7 day work weeks. Anyone who takes even half a day off catches a ton of shit. Heck, I get yelled at for leaving the office at 11pm one day.

3. No funds(remember 30-50% less pay) or time to find a new gig and you've got a mortgage/rent/family to support.

4. Game fails/sucks because of crunch or other reasons. Studio closes/layoffs.

5. Repeat step #1.

I would hazard a good 80% of people in gamedev are paycheck-to-paycheck(I know we were). So while it's easy to just claim they should quit that's not as simple in practice.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#74

Post by ramy_d »

briandear wrote: post #72
theyinwhy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is about technology. In general, unions don't like people to get fired (without proper compensation). If new tech does more work for the company but no one gets fired I see no reason why unions would have anything against it. However, the whole firing topic is really only filling up a fraction of unions' time. Unions' main tasks are overwatching safety regulations, crunch times, etc... so that the ac…

Ok. We have automated the build process. We don’t need you anymore. Thanks for your service, here’s two weeks’ severance. A union would go nuts in that scenario. Which then supports the theory that unions would oppose technology that improved efficiency since they would care more about the protecting the production input than they care about optimizing the production output.

Yeah because that's really shitty. If you actually cared about that person you wouldn't throw them out, you'd train and place them elsewhere within your company because they are good employees that contribute positively to your culture.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#75

Post by horsecaptin »

ttoinou wrote: post #28
horsecaptin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, let's call it compensation. That is a good umbrella term that includes salary, overtime and benefits. The compensation for game workers sucks compared to their counterparts in other software fields. This is probably because it is sexier to be a game dev than, say, working at Salesforce. It is a good idea for game industry workers to form a union or guild.

it is sexier to be a game dev than, say, working at Salesforce. So what should we do, besides educate people about the reality of working in this industry (which is not really the point of an union) ?

When the industry is highly lucrative on the backs of overworked labor, some type of a union apparatus is the most affective way to ensure fair compensation.

Yes, we can educate others who want to enter the industry, but when you're graduating out of university with a fat debt, you'll accept the poor working conditions for long enough and the cycle will continue to perpetuate.

The best protection against predation is for the prey to act together. Predators will always divide and conquer and go after the weak, and so the weak must be protected. The other way is increased competition - but our environment is becoming more and more anti-competitive.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#76

Post by cardplayer »

Paul_S wrote: post #67

A union will solve nothing other than leeching off some money from the workers (yay!). If you want to solve the problem you have to educate the credible little children who think working in gamedev is a privilege and are willing to work for free because "games!". Currently and for decades there has been an infinite supply of these, hence all the junior and mid roles pay less than half than any other industry.

You gotta love the uncaring, cynical dev with more interest in his own pocket than the effects of automation and the well-being of his technical and non-technical co-workers. Apparently, he only believes that innovation is possible everywhere else besides unions and collective bargaining. Be positive my friend, I’m sure we’re capable of creating a new type of union in 2018.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#77

Post by brucephillips »

cardplayer wrote: post #76
Paul_S wrote: post #67

A union will solve nothing other than leeching off some money from the workers (yay!). If you want to solve the problem you have to educate the credible little children who think working in gamedev is a privilege and are willing to work for free because "games!". Currently and for decades there has been an infinite supply of these, hence all the junior and mid roles pay less than half than any other industry.

You gotta love the uncaring, cynical dev with more interest in his own pocket than the effects of automation and the well-being of his technical and non-technical co-workers. Apparently, he only believes that innovation is possible everywhere else besides unions and collective bargaining. Be positive my friend, I’m sure we’re capable of creating a new type of union in 2018.

I'm failing to see how your comment is any less cynical than the comment above.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#78

Post by lalaithion »

cabaalis wrote: post #70

I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.

Film unions don't regulate indie films — hopefully this will be much the same.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#79

Post by lalaithion »

Paul_S wrote: post #63

"We are a currently-forming anonymous and horizontal organization" - what does that mean in English?

They don't publish the names of their members and they don't have a tiered structure of who does what. Everyone presumably reports to a small group of leaders.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#80

Post by lalaithion »

ttoinou wrote: post #24

I have read the whole website and failed to see one concrete example of action that the union could take to make game-industry employees' life better Game Workers Unite is a broad-reaching organization that seeks to connect pro-union activists, exploited workers, and allies across borders and across ideologies in the name of building a unionized game industry. Even compatible with the libertarian ideology :p ?

Libertarians should, in principle, be okay with people exercising their personal freedom to form a union.
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