Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 226 posts

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#131

Post by emodendroket »

swampangel wrote: post #122
emodendroket wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a really muddy definition of "spiritual joy" to argue that a pilgrimage to worship holy relics is the same as going to gawk at the Eiffel Tower and eat fancy food.

While fictional, the Canterbury Tales portrays pilgrimages as a kind of extended carnival, where some of society's normal rules are suspended. You can argue that tourism was born out of catering to pilgrims: http://blog.museumoflondon.org.uk/pilgrim-badges-birth-touri... Of course there are more serious traditions of pilgrimage, but people are people, and for every one with a deep connection to their faith, there are…

That's a fair point. It'd be interesting to see a comparison with the modern phenomenon of the Hajj, which seems like the best point for comparison of something in the modern world. People do, of course, do tours of Christian holy sites too, but I think that, in general, the seriousness of purpose of the average Hajj-goer is likely greater.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#132

Post by bluGill »

emodendroket wrote: post #25
comment123456 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really dont understand the term productivity. Productivity is produced value / hours of work. So usually people that work the hardest will have lower productivity that does not mean less value produced. Something can have very bad productivity but be very profitable and generate a lot more value than something else with bigger productivity.

If the returns diminish rapidly then perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste so much time at the office.

If you are paid by the hour (as most low wage jobs are) time in the "office" does translate into more returns. There are many people (mostly immigrants) working long hard hours so they can afford to send their children to better schools. The returns don't make sense in any short term sense, but their ~grandchildren tend to get rich as we know from history.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#133

Post by hn0 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #82

They paid less tax, too.

They paid substantial taxes in grain. They were pretty much considered the private property of their landlord. If they wanted to get married they first had to be allowed so by their lord, and then pay him as compensation for being so nice to them. Then there's debt-servitude, invasions, and all that fun stuff.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#134

Post by [deleted] »

vadimberman wrote: post #58

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is: > One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school. The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are relat…

[deleted]

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#135

Post by _khau »

vadimberman wrote: post #58

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is: > One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school. The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are relat…

Your second sentence is literally whataboutism.

Why not address the point of the article instead of talking about communism, which nobody mentioned?

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#136

Post by SubiculumCode »

jeanmichelx wrote: post #75
adventured wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to agree with you broadly. However, two data points to bring to the discussion. Germany's median net wealth per adult is below that of the US ($47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017). Given the US isn't renowned for how well its middle does these days, that implies something has gone wrong in Germany. Per the OECD figures, the US is the third most productive in terms of GDP per hour worked, at around $73 for 2017. Excl…

> $47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017 Ever tried to buy a (non fast-food) meal in Germany and in the US? Your purchasing power is way higher in Europe.

In Hungary, I felt rich...but then they were not using the euro.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#137

Post by sparrish »

watwut wrote: post #59
sparrish wrote: post #48

They got up to 1/2 the year off, sure. But my guess is they had to work more than 2000 hours the other half. They just compressed the hours worked into the growing season. Modern farmers do the same thing (from a rural farming community).

In winter you still need to care about animals, repair stuff, sew, chop wood, cook, etc. Peasants had to create a lot of things that we buy nowdays. They did not slacked whole winter.

I agree, they worked in the winter, as modern farmer do as well, but not nearly as hard as the spring, summer, fall.

I was just going with the "up to 1/2 the year vacation" from the article.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#138

Post by athenot »

ctdonath wrote: post #62
crusso wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not want to swap positions with the 14th century peasant I'd go further than that. I would not want to swap positions with a 14th century monarch.

Agreed. Whilst touring Neuschwanstein Castle and Biltmore Estate, what struck me: for all the luxurious art & fineries & service kings & tycoons enjoyed, what we consider basic necessities were hard to come by, if available at all, for even the super-rich. Sitting here in my study, I: teleconference with my team continent-wide, practically have more [e-]books than Vanderbilt's 25,000 volume library, enjoy a constant…

Very true to all of that.

But the live-in servants have been replaced by external servants. People who are expected to be working when at 11pm I decide I want to eat a bite of food, yet are paid below what it takes to raise their own family and are working 2 jobs at once to make ends meet.

The boundary between nobility and servitude is more blurry, and yes there are a lot more ways to rise out of servitude than 7 centuries ago, but I'm reminded that all the niceties I currently enjoy are still coming at a price for those working in the system that supplies them to me.

Having lived in Europe and in the US, I'm aware that there's a tradeoff between having excellent service to the wealthy and decent living conditions to the poor.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#139

Post by emodendroket »

maxerickson wrote: post #100
maxxxxx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably would prefer higher wages.

Both. Wages first of course. But plenty of people don't want to be limited to part time hours.

Right, but if you could have health insurance and a decent standard of living while working part-time, who's to say that would still be the case? That's so far from the world we live in that it is hard to imagine it.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#140

Post by ionised »

adventured wrote: post #86
jeanmichelx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017 Ever tried to buy a (non fast-food) meal in Germany and in the US? Your purchasing power is way higher in Europe.

I disagree, the US famously has a low cost of living compared to developed nations in Europe. That includes everything from energy prices to housing prices to food prices. When adjusted for the higher US wages, that imbalance is even more dramatic. Take energy costs as one example. US natural gas prices are half that of Western Europe. Electricity costs are half or less that of Western Europe. In Germany, electricity…

Does that factor in the cost of healthcare?
Post reply on HN