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Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

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Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#121

Post by adrianN »

glastra wrote: post #60
comment123456 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never makes sense for the worker. But most of the time is more profitable for the one squishing the work out of the people if people are cheap enough. [edit] Parasites are always the most productive if you don't measure in absolute terms. The same happens among countries.

I never understood this. Pay people half the wage for half their time, hire twice the staff. Get a significant increase in value produced for the same money. I, for one, would accept half pay for half work. And I suspect others too.

Unfortunately then you have to communicate with twice as many people. Communication overhead is real and doubling team sizes can kill projects.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#122

Post by swampangel »

emodendroket wrote: post #92
mantas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Both are getting away from home purely for spiritual joy.

It takes a really muddy definition of "spiritual joy" to argue that a pilgrimage to worship holy relics is the same as going to gawk at the Eiffel Tower and eat fancy food.

While fictional, the Canterbury Tales portrays pilgrimages as a kind of extended carnival, where some of society's normal rules are suspended. You can argue that tourism was born out of catering to pilgrims: http://blog.museumoflondon.org.uk/pilgrim-badges-birth-touri...

Of course there are more serious traditions of pilgrimage, but people are people, and for every one with a deep connection to their faith, there are others who will use the excuse of pilgrimage for a break from the routine.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#123

Post by stevenwoo »

Jaruzel wrote: post #65

> As for the modern American worker? After a year on the job, she gets an average of eight vacation days annually. Is this true? In the UK, 'standard' holiday entitlement for most jobs starts at 20 days annually, and that doesn't include official days off such as Xmas, New Year, Easter etc.

Yes, this is true for the average American white collar worker at the start of employment, sort of earning fractional vacation hours per hour of work. Service worker - not sure about that - is that the same as zero hours contract employee? Low unemployment has forced companies to start offering paid vacation to employees in fast food restaurants in recent years. Many teachers in public schools famously don't have to work for three months a year, but don't get paid for those three months a year.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#124

Post by ghaff »

barrkel wrote: post #87
ghaff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say nothing of the fact that let's see the first time he gets an infection or disease or needs surgery given no vaccinations, antibiotics, or anesthetics.

When was the last time you got an infection or disease that would have struck you down without modern medicine? I never have. In fact if hospitals didn't exist and I never saw a doctor my entire life, I don't think anything would have changed. I don't expect to live much longer than 60 as it is. Most 14th century monarchs, in the brief glance I did on Wikipedia before my answer, lived to 55 or 60 or so before they di…

The age of monarchs has a strong bias toward those who made it to adulthood. A huge percentage of children died historically of diseases that are mostly prevented by vaccinations today.

And since we're talking 14th century, there was also that Black Death thing that killed about half the population of Europe.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#125

Post by bjourne »

vadimberman wrote: post #58

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is: > One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school. The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are relat…

The excerpt doesn't come from a paper -- it comes from the book The Overworked American: The Unexpected Decline of Leisure, by Juliet B. Schor: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w... If you want to be snarky, get the details right.

Peasants' work output were calorie-restricted. 11 hours backbreaking were the norm during harvest, but not in the less busier seasons. In the northern countries, snow and lack of sunlight made working impossible for several months per year. Instead, they ate very little food slept through most days.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#126

Post by emodendroket »

mantas wrote: post #115
emodendroket wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a "different spin to the same old human need;" I think it's a phenomenon entirely different in kind. This is, I think, as clearly as I can possibly state my argument.

It's not different at all. It's traveling somewhere afar without objective practical need. Going to music festivals is sort of like pilgrimage as well. But I definitely count it as vacation. People do classic pilgrimages and call that hiking vacation nowadays. Amateur sports events, especially multi-day stage ones, are totally like pilgrimage. You get together with people with common goal, do shit and hang out. I sur…

> It's not different at all. It's traveling somewhere afar without objective practical need.

You are looking at this from the perspective of an atheist living in 2018 and not a deeply religious medieval peasant.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#127

Post by socratewasright »

They also died younger and led miserable lives by today's standards.

The article claims the american worker gets 8 days of vacation annually. 52*2 > 8 last time I checked.

I do believe though that with more automation, workers should be getting more vacation time.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#128

Post by hn0 »

macspoofing wrote: post #88
emodendroket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the same lack of "incentive" applies to many people with menial jobs in a capitalist economy.

Not quite. There is still a direct correlation between work and benefit, as in if you work more, you make more, but you keep more. In Communist economies, that isn't true. If you work more, you make more, but you don't get to keep more.

> There is still a direct correlation between work and benefit, as in if you work more, you make more, but you keep more.

This correlation isn't all that direct in my experience.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#129

Post by muzani »

Is this surprising? People in the past had much more time and much less resources. This isn't just medieval workers. It might have applied to the last two generations, before the information age allowed us to check work email first thing in the morning and last thing at night.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#130

Post by lawlessone »

zeth___ wrote: post #22

What if it isn't a bug but a feature? Tired citizens are not engaged citizens, they don't have the energy to organize and push for their interests. Workers being less productive is a small price to pay for employers when all your productivity gains go to them anyway.

Could it have more to do with agriculture? during certain times of year you probably didn't have work . waiting for things just grow or thaw. before you can begin plating or harvest?
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