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Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

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Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#51
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Look at the playbook from an agnostic position instead. The reason the media gave candidate Trump the press was because, just like candidate Obama, sold eyeballs; Trump more so because he got both sides mad. Recall the puff pieces and the discussion of Michelle Obama's fantastic arms, that is nothing but puff and she moved the papers, so they covered the candidate more; to Hilary's detriment. 2. You need to think…

Obama for America was upfront about what they were doing, and the user initiated the action willingly. Cambridge Analytics was not, and people had no idea what their data was being used for. This is not some capricious delineation.

Users' Friend data, which was used by OfA, was not explicitly given by those Friends.

Yes, Facebook's user agreement allowed them to do that. But I'd bet most people didn't consider that by signing up for Facebook, their personal profile data could be given to political campaigns without their knowledge, if any of their friends consented to it.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like how the 2008 election didn't count, because Obama is actually a Kenyan. People can't just lose an election anymore.

...which is ironic, since due to that same polarization, Presidents in general seem to have less ability (or maybe it's inclination) than ever, to effect any meaningful change about anything that matters. It doesn't matter who's President.

Arguably that's how the U.S. government was designed to function. The new (well, the recurring thing) is that Congress, White House, and even the judiciary get more political capital from inaction and blame than they get from cooperation.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#53
Our most trenchant and persistent criticism of Facebook has been rooted in a skeptical view of its illusory component; one where illusory experience is scapegoated as our fatal flaw to be subsequently exploited by Facebook’s evil machinations. We view the net-worth of its board of directors as being directly proportional to their malign influence in our society, pulling the wool over our eyes with an addictive illusion while voraciously funneling our private information into vast data-centers where AI is trained to new heights of persuasiveness. In this view ‘The Filter Bubble’ and ‘Fake News’ can easily be seen to be be mere effects of the following feedback loop:

User engages with material that matches their base desires, they are seduced and enveloped by these illusions, and the illusory experience of having their internal life seemingly manifest in the real world, this feels important to them so they form groups on this basis, like the prisoners in Plato's allegory of the cave. Facebook optimizes for engagement, presenting this user with more specialized material, eventually this material detaches from reality altogether. However this results in a skeptical cul-de-sac where the meaningfulness of Facebook is ignored. Instead it is scapegoated so that we can largely avoid taking responsibility for our actions. To refute these claims Mark Zuckerberg has emphasised our agency in deciding what Facebook is for and does. Regarding Fake News he has said:

> “I do think there is a certain profound lack of empathy in asserting that the only reason someone could have voted the way they did is they saw some fake news … If you believe that, then I don’t think you have internalized the message the Trump supporters are trying to send in this election.”

And regarding the Filter Bubble:

> “The research also shows something that is a little bit less inspiring, which is that we study not only people’s exposure in Newsfeed to content from different points of view, but then what people click on and engage with. By far the biggest filter in the system is not that the content isn’t there, [or] they don’t have friends who support the other candidate or are of another religion, [it’s that] you just don’t click on it. You actually tune it out when you see it. You have your world view. You go through, and I think that we would all be surprised how many things that don’t conform to our world view that we just tune out.”

Usefully Winnicott’s transitional object helps us out of the skeptical cul-de-sac by foregrounding our agency in choosing our illusory experiences and thereby restoring their hopeful character. It also matches Mark Zuckerberg’s informed view on what happens on Facebook.

- http://iain.land/posts/20170201-transitional-object.html

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to talk about social issues and politics and stuff but the more I do it in public the more I run into what feels like "politics-as-basketball." It's really begun to feel like team sports as opposed to a critical analysis of conditions and power analysis.

As someone in their mid-twenties, I have to ask the older HNers: has it always been this "stupid," so vitriolic and hateful? If not, when did it become this way?

The Revolutionary War era was as bad or worse than it is today. [1] They spit about as much venom at each other as you possibly could. They said arguably far worse things about each other than have been said about Trump or Obama.

There was a bit of comparative calm that settled in, from the immediate time after the Civil War, until the late 1960s. The level of ugliness of ideological attacks that Franklin Roosevelt saw, for example, were nowhere near what Obama & Trump have seen. That century was a far calmer era for political vitriol, than the 1780-1860 time frame, or since the late 1960s.

A not amusing Civil War era example:

"In 1856, U.S. Sen. Charles Sumner of Massachusetts gave a speech criticizing pro-slavery southerners. Three days later, he was beaten so badly - on the Senate floor - by U.S. Rep. Preston Brooks of South Carolina that he didn’t return to the Senate for three years."

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/09/the-ori...

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#55
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize that this is tangential to what you're talking about but your comment reminded me of it strongly: As much as it's clear that there was some funny business with trump's people and russia, the way liberals are salivating over mueller's investigation makes me uncomfortable. they need the legal system to pronounce in some way that trump and his people broke the rules, in order to avoid acknowledging that the ge…

It's like how the 2008 election didn't count, because Obama is actually a Kenyan. People can't just lose an election anymore.

Sure, it's just like that, because all that hacking of Democratic databases didn't happen.

I think the assumption that the wrongdoing was a conspiracy to get Trump elected gets far too much attention and is a secondary issue, but unlike the birther issue, there was quite a bit of funny business in general. The birther issue was just made up a priori.

The funny business, regardless of whether it benefited anyone, needs to be investigated. Once we understand what happened, then we can worry about whether it was an effort to swing the election or just a tactic for creating chaos.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to talk about social issues and politics and stuff but the more I do it in public the more I run into what feels like "politics-as-basketball." It's really begun to feel like team sports as opposed to a critical analysis of conditions and power analysis.

As someone in their mid-twenties, I have to ask the older HNers: has it always been this "stupid," so vitriolic and hateful? If not, when did it become this way?

It has, but it's never been so easy to spout off to the world before, or be instantly informed about what other people are thinking.

In the 1980s the media hated Reagan about as much as they hated Bush or Trump. Before that it was Nixon. But you really only heard about it if you watched the evening news, and that was 30 minutes of the day. It wasn't being fed to you continuously like an intravenous drip on your phone.

It's the speed and pervasiveness that have increased, not so much the partisanship.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#58
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Look at the playbook from an agnostic position instead. The reason the media gave candidate Trump the press was because, just like candidate Obama, sold eyeballs; Trump more so because he got both sides mad. Recall the puff pieces and the discussion of Michelle Obama's fantastic arms, that is nothing but puff and she moved the papers, so they covered the candidate more; to Hilary's detriment. 2. You need to think…

Obama for America was upfront about what they were doing, and the user initiated the action willingly. Cambridge Analytics was not, and people had no idea what their data was being used for. This is not some capricious delineation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5520303/Obama-campai...

By their own admission.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because to manipulate the topic of the day, it's far easier to make a single article or interview which will then be reposted, rewritten and mixed with opinions countless times without really checking it or even critically thinking about it, than to organize a collusion with evil masterminds on top, involving huge amounts of people. All the viral trends can be traced back to one-two sources which got picked by influe…

Do you really think corporate conglomerates have no interest in PR campaigns that benefit their bottom line? It doesn't take "huge amounts of people", just a handful of board members.

Of course they do. They influence the bias by various means. They don't select particular topics. To choose the specific topic everyone is talking about today, you need just a bit more than a handful of board members though.

Re: Facebook is America’s scapegoat du jour

#60

Aren't scapegoats usually blameless? edit: one of many, many articles you can find criticizing Megan McCardle https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/02/megan-mcardle... ... this is not a non-sequitur attack on her thesis, but I am saying that she has a long track record that one should be aware of before reading her OpEds.

No, but I seriously doubt the idiots at Cambridge Analytica and the guy with pink hair were the genius masterminds who can swing political votes through targeted advertising.

People don't like to admit that the people in swing states are mostly against globalisation, wall street and the system as it is.

Trump spent less than half what Clinton did on ads. I truly believe he could have spent nothing and still won. Voters are just pissed off at the current state of affairs.

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