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Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#161

Post by milesvp »

cmyr wrote: post #129
mgkimsal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

commute. lunch. bathroom. that will probably take 60-120 minutes of your day. driving to clients for meetings. may be billable, may not be. driving to potential clients for meetings, and having those meetings - not billable. dealing with incoming calls and emails. actually trying to market yourself - blogging, or some other content work, or applying for conference speaking, or planning presentations for local groups…

You aren't billing for _debugging_? I would also include in my billing a 30 minute lunch over an 8 hour day, which is the minimum mandated by local (Canadian) labour law, and I would bill for any incoming calls and email that is related to the project I'm working on. I'm definitely aware of how different my time feels when I'm billing, and I've tried to relax a bit. I think billing daily or weekly is always better th…

If you're comfortable billing for lunch, you're probably not charging enough. I'd tend to agree though that you should be charging for debugging, but I've had some things where I couldn't in clear conscience charge for. Things like troubleshooting an issue with my tooling that went beyond just 'sharpening my ax for the job'. Especially if I'm using a job to try out some new tooling, rather than using something tried and true.

That said I understand getting to daily or weekly rates can really let your rates take off, and you don't have to worry about what time you're on the clock in the same way.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#162

Post by mrgill »

tomcooks wrote: post #53

Here's the method I used to build myself a consultancy business: buy a 9.90€ suit jacket at h&m, a 0.80€ pen and a moleskine notebook. Wake up at 7 the next day, start knocking doors and sell your services to every business in town; the trick is that you can't go home and eat until you have at least a prospect client. Don't cold call, don't send emails, don't print business cards. Knock doors while looking profession…

I thought about doing these many times when I needed money, didn't follow up with it though, exactly because I'm too shy.

I'm gonna have to do it soon though, again, because of money.

Would love to hear more about your experiences.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#163

Post by wuliwong »

EpicEng wrote: post #112
wuliwong wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I 100% guarantee it. Your one experience doesn't guarantee the next person's.

col·lo·qui·al·ism noun a word or phrase that is not formal or literary, typically one used in ordinary or familiar conversation.

This is not an example of colloquialism. The commenter is stating that they think their experience is the general rule. If they said "I 90% guarantee" it still wouldn't change my point.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#164

Post by cmyr »

milesvp wrote: post #161
cmyr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't billing for _debugging_? I would also include in my billing a 30 minute lunch over an 8 hour day, which is the minimum mandated by local (Canadian) labour law, and I would bill for any incoming calls and email that is related to the project I'm working on. I'm definitely aware of how different my time feels when I'm billing, and I've tried to relax a bit. I think billing daily or weekly is always better th…

If you're comfortable billing for lunch, you're probably not charging enough. I'd tend to agree though that you should be charging for debugging, but I've had some things where I couldn't in clear conscience charge for. Things like troubleshooting an issue with my tooling that went beyond just 'sharpening my ax for the job'. Especially if I'm using a job to try out some new tooling, rather than using something tried…

If I'm billing hourly and I'm billing an 8 hour day, I'm including a 30 minute lunch, regardless of rate. Anything longer than that is off the clock. If I'm billing 4 hours, then sure, no lunch. This is only true if I have a single client project on the go; if I'm billing piecemeal through the day (which I never want to do) then yes I'm eating on my own time.

I get being hesitant to bill for certain kinds of troubleshooting, but I think it comes down a lot to what the scope of the project is. If I'm on something that is multiple weeks of work, and I'm dealing with a problem that I would be encountering and would be expected to solve if I were working full-time, then it's billable.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#165

Post by gk1 »

inanutshellus wrote: post #92
gk1 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A client that doesn't know what he wants is a bad client. I disagree completely. A prospect who doesn't know what they want is an opportunity for the freelancer to provide more value by finding a solution for them. You're conflating "unrealistic expectations" with "I know I have a problem but I don't know what the solution is." The former is something to avoid. The latter should make cash-register sounds in your he…

I believe his main point is that a client that doesn't know what he wants also doesn't know how much to spend, and sure doesn't want to over-spend. If you find someone that doesn't know what they want but is throwing cash around, sure, be the expert that leads them to digital nirvana. Generally though, if they don't know what they want, they don't realize how hard it is and so will be in for some serious shell-shock…

I think we’re talking about different classes of customers.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#166

Post by tortasaur »

bugBunny wrote: post #85
parallel_item wrote: post #48

Folks hate on Upwork.com but I have used it to secure and build good long-term relationships. Once the relationships grew we could take it offline to a more formal relationship. Because I started my career as an accountant, I have been able to start 2 of these relationships as an accountant and move over to data analysis. A good note to include is I do this part-time while working full-time and don't think I could si…

Thats illegal, you had signed contract with upwork.

Assuming the parent is talking about completing a contract on Upwork, then setting up future contracts outside of Upwork: it's not illegal, it's just against their TOS.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#167

Post by dahart »

cmyr wrote: post #129
mgkimsal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

commute. lunch. bathroom. that will probably take 60-120 minutes of your day. driving to clients for meetings. may be billable, may not be. driving to potential clients for meetings, and having those meetings - not billable. dealing with incoming calls and emails. actually trying to market yourself - blogging, or some other content work, or applying for conference speaking, or planning presentations for local groups…

You aren't billing for _debugging_? I would also include in my billing a 30 minute lunch over an 8 hour day, which is the minimum mandated by local (Canadian) labour law, and I would bill for any incoming calls and email that is related to the project I'm working on. I'm definitely aware of how different my time feels when I'm billing, and I've tried to relax a bit. I think billing daily or weekly is always better th…

I'd say it's a bad idea to conflate labor laws for salaried full time employees with hourly freelance contract work. The labor laws do not apply to self-employed people, and they do not require that you bill clients for your lunch. Your client is not your employer.

If your client understands and expects to be billed for lunch, and your client is paying for your time from 9-5, then it's reasonable. (But that would be a rare situation, normally that would be very temporary, or become a full-time salaried position). If your client is paying for your work on an hourly basis, and has not explicitly agreed to pay for your lunch, then billing for it should be off limits.

For most hourly contract work, lunch is on your own time, not billable hours. I'd be pissed if my lawyer were billing me for lunch, it would be downright dishonest.

As far as debugging, I assumed the parent's comment was talking about debugging his own tools, for example a debugging activity that applies to all his clients, or to himself, rather than time spent on project specific triage. If I'm working directly on the project, I bill for it. If I'm working on something that is indirect and/or not solely for the project's benefit, then I don't.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#168

Post by radubrehar »

goostavos wrote: post #36

> I'm a software engineer with a full-time job, but I have lots of spare time in my off hours. I'd like to monetize this time > I'm not looking for massive pay, just something to occupy my time and some side money. This opinion will change. I 100% guarantee it. A few years ago, I had the exact same reasoning for starting freelancing on the side. I even justified my desire for more paid work as "I'd be programming on…

You should have a look at codementor.io/

I started last year in May (see https://www.codementor.io/radubrehar) and already doing pretty well. Work just when you want to! Plus, it feels great to mentor people and help them solve real problems everyday.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#169

Post by dahart »

cmyr wrote: post #164
milesvp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're comfortable billing for lunch, you're probably not charging enough. I'd tend to agree though that you should be charging for debugging, but I've had some things where I couldn't in clear conscience charge for. Things like troubleshooting an issue with my tooling that went beyond just 'sharpening my ax for the job'. Especially if I'm using a job to try out some new tooling, rather than using something tried…

If I'm billing hourly and I'm billing an 8 hour day, I'm including a 30 minute lunch, regardless of rate. Anything longer than that is off the clock. If I'm billing 4 hours, then sure, no lunch. This is only true if I have a single client project on the go; if I'm billing piecemeal through the day (which I never want to do) then yes I'm eating on my own time. I get being hesitant to bill for certain kinds of troubles…

> If I'm billing hourly and I'm billing an 8 hour day, I'm including a 30 minute lunch, regardless of rate.

If you bill daily or weekly, then great. If you bill hourly, then the only way this is okay is if you put "30 minutes lunch" on your bill and show that you're charging for it. There's a reason why it's very very hard to bill for 8 hours of work in a day, and that's because you don't work for 8 hours.

Re: Ask HN: How do you find freelance work?

#170

Post by lyndonjohnsonbe »

tomcooks wrote: post #158
glomph wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that exactly what cold calling is?

Maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't there a huge difference between looking up numbers and showing up in person in a business (casual) attire? I don't understand the downvotes, the above strategy worked really well for me and I'm a very shy person with no sales background.

Cold calling got it's name from that but generally people think of it as reaching out to someone to sell them something with no prior introduction.
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