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Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

71–80 of 226 posts

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#71
post #39
post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

>Bottom line: I would not want to swap positions with the 14th century peasant and I suspect the author would not want to, either. But is that the issue here? What does that sentence even mean, or add to the discussion? The article quotes the historian as finding that peasants in 14th century England put in at most 150 days of work per year. This was, according to them, an abnormal period of especially large wages. T…

That's equating unemployment with vacation.

And that's overlooking how hard mundane existence was: heat required collecting firewood, cooling was opening a window, cooking was over open indoor fires, food was hard to preserve, beds were scratchy/lumpy/hard, clothing was hand-made mostly from raw wool (clean, spin thread, weave, hand sew) so wardrobes were sparse, water was often dirty & diseased (beer was more necessity a la purified water than entertainment), etc.

Hence the point: the notion of "they had more vacation than we do" is a non-sequitur when our "work" would appeal to them as "luxury vacation", and their "vacation" was prolonged unemployment with few resources. You wouldn't trade your "work" for their "vacation".

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#72

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is: > One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school. The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are relat…

The argument is not capitalism vs state socialism ("communism"). That you seem to think it is, shows exactly how well propaganda has worked on you, from both of those sources.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#73
post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

> I would not want to swap positions with the 14th century peasant and I suspect the author would not want to, either.

I'm glad to have anesthesia, antibiotics, and so on, but if they lived as we do today, the Earth, seas, and air would have been choked with plastic, mercury, greenhouse gases, and so on centuries ago.

We're externalizing our costs to future generations, who will have to pay to clean up our messes, or live with them.

Would you prefer living in a way that leaves the Earth as clean as you found it? If so, are you? Why don't you?

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#74

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

Germany has the whole EEU working menial jobs for them. So in Germany VW workers slack off and even protest to get reduced work week, while in EEU German managers walk over a car plant with watches and time each manipulation in order to fulfill their quotas. Yet the sales are reported in Germany, so productivity metrics goes way up there. It's really naïve to think they aren't benefiting from what is essentially softer colonialism.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#75

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

I happen to agree with you broadly. However, two data points to bring to the discussion. Germany's median net wealth per adult is below that of the US ($47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017). Given the US isn't renowned for how well its middle does these days, that implies something has gone wrong in Germany. Per the OECD figures, the US is the third most productive in terms of GDP per hour worked, at around $73 for 2017. Excl…

> $47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017

Ever tried to buy a (non fast-food) meal in Germany and in the US? Your purchasing power is way higher in Europe.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#76

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

Working long hours in an office job has nothing to do with productivity; it's an abstract form of signaling your commitment to the job.

Which is not at all smart.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#77
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more costs to an employee than just their wages

All direct costs that I know of are proportional to the employee's wage. Could you elaborate a bit and tell us what other costs you are thinking about?

Recruiting and training for all, and for the more fortunate among us benefits like health insurance, transit benefits, etc.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#78

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is: > One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school. The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are relat…

The argument is not capitalism vs state socialism ("communism"). That you seem to think it is, shows exactly how well propaganda has worked on you, from both of those sources.

It's wonderful that there is someone with mind as unclouded by propaganda to enlighten me and improve my limited world view.

Did you find any figures or arguments in the original paper that I overlooked? Like, Chinese peasants, German peasants, etc.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer.

> I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Yes, because you exchange work for money, and exchange that money for machines that do the chores for you. That's what the last 300 years have given us.

When the Industrial Revolution was starting that can't have been the trade-off anyone had in mind, because none of those things had been invented.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer.

> Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer. Because back then beer was safer to drink than water.

While I thought so too, that seems to be a myth. https://history.howstuffworks.com/medieval-people-drink-beer...
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