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Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

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Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#51

Post by ptero »

andrepd wrote: post #39
ptero wrote: post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

>Bottom line: I would not want to swap positions with the 14th century peasant and I suspect the author would not want to, either. But is that the issue here? What does that sentence even mean, or add to the discussion? The article quotes the historian as finding that peasants in 14th century England put in at most 150 days of work per year. This was, according to them, an abnormal period of especially large wages. T…

>>Bottom line: I would not want to swap positions with the 14th century peasant and I suspect the author would not want to, either.

> But is that the issue here? What does that sentence even mean, or add to the discussion?

I think the author of the article (not the author of the quoted research one level down) argues that an average medieval peasant had it better than an average modern worker; thus we should try to nudge in that direction, specifically by providing more vacation. Or at least that is how I read it and what the last sentence argues against. My 2c.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#52

Post by ghaff »

emodendroket wrote: post #42
qwr23qwer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work on oil rigs, fishing (Deadliest Catch guys?), underwater welding etc. are usually done for a couple months a year and taking the rest off, (at least from anecdotal data from folks I know). Construction work can be similar in places where harsh winters make it impossible to build anything during winter (frozen ground and all that). Farming can be similar.

I work in Boston and I see people working in the winter in buildings. What region is this?

Depends on the type of construction specialty. I have a neighbor who is in heavy construction (i.e. drives backhoes, etc.) and he's typically off for the winter--though he sometimes does various other things.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#53

Post by equivalentideas »

zeth___ wrote: post #22

What if it isn't a bug but a feature? Tired citizens are not engaged citizens, they don't have the energy to organize and push for their interests. Workers being less productive is a small price to pay for employers when all your productivity gains go to them anyway.

+1

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#54

Post by a22222 »

adventured wrote: post #44
Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

I happen to agree with you broadly. However, two data points to bring to the discussion. Germany's median net wealth per adult is below that of the US ($47,000 vs $56,000 for 2017). Given the US isn't renowned for how well its middle does these days, that implies something has gone wrong in Germany. Per the OECD figures, the US is the third most productive in terms of GDP per hour worked, at around $73 for 2017. Excl…

Reunification is probably the cause. "Unite" the U.S. with Mexico, give all Mexicans 2/3 of the U.S. benefits and pensions and see what the GDP will be like in 10 years.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#56

Post by notacoward »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #33
emodendroket wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer.

> I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Yes, because you exchange work for money, and exchange that money for machines that do the chores for you. That's what the last 300 years have given us.

Or you exchange that money for other people to do those chores. Home cleaning services, landscapers, electricians, plumbers, car mechanics and drivers (including Uber/Lyft/taxi), cooks or restaurant/takeout food (often plus a third party to deliver same), nannies, dog walkers, and so on. Specialization is the name of the game. I can do some of these things myself, but I can also earn enough in one hour to pay for multiple hours of other people's time and expertise (and amortized equipment). That's a pretty big win compared to a 14th-century tradesperson, or even most nobles.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#57

Post by minikites »

I'm going to duplicate a comment I made in another thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16652952), because it applies equally well here and I'm quite disappointed that I seem to be the only one pointing this out (after that thread reached more than 340 comments, a mere two other people made a similar comment to mine):

As I type this comment, there are 55 other comments in this discussion, not one of them using the word "union". That's the only feasible method I can see to enact large scale change. CEOs and other executives aren't going to change out of the kindness of their hearts, as evidenced by the fact that they could start at any point and still choose not to.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#58

Post by vadimberman »

Ugh. The paper reeks of political agenda. The very first sentence is:

> One of capitalism's most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil.

What about the Communism? Why would they spread this durable myth? Because I remember hearing the same story in the Soviet school.

The paper does not make a real effort trying to consider different evidence and honestly investigate the subject. Most of the sources are related to the UK (specifically, England) with a couple referring to the US in XIX century. How do we know how much the Dutch, German, French, Russian peasants worked, let alone those in the rice-growing Asia? Finally, how about trying to research 1600s and 1700s in North America to compare apples with apples?

Even in her own paper, the results appear a bit, ahem, uneven:

> 1988 - Manufacturing workers, U.K.: 1856 hours

> 1400-1600 - Farmer-miner, adult male, U.K.: 1980 hours > Calculated from Ian Blanchard's estimate of 180 days per year. Assumes 11-hour day

Yes, it's 180 days, but 11 hours each. Did she actually try working 11 hours on a backbreaking menial job? Does she actually believe that 11 hours being a miner in 1500s is the same as 11 hours in the office or even a modern assembly line?

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#59

Post by watwut »

sparrish wrote: post #48

They got up to 1/2 the year off, sure. But my guess is they had to work more than 2000 hours the other half. They just compressed the hours worked into the growing season. Modern farmers do the same thing (from a rural farming community).

In winter you still need to care about animals, repair stuff, sew, chop wood, cook, etc. Peasants had to create a lot of things that we buy nowdays. They did not slacked whole winter.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#60

Post by glastra »

comment123456 wrote: post #32
emodendroket wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the returns diminish rapidly then perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste so much time at the office.

It never makes sense for the worker. But most of the time is more profitable for the one squishing the work out of the people if people are cheap enough. [edit] Parasites are always the most productive if you don't measure in absolute terms. The same happens among countries.

I never understood this. Pay people half the wage for half their time, hire twice the staff. Get a significant increase in value produced for the same money.

I, for one, would accept half pay for half work. And I suspect others too.

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