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Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

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Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two words: leveraged buyout. I'm not sure what purpose they serve other than to create debt. Working at a company that was acquired by a smaller fish with a $4 billion loan, it made things painful when cuts were constantly made to pay interest on debt. Somehow, the situation benefited the shareholders that signed off on the deal.

Well yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Company A borrows $4 billion; it's leveraged against the company they're going to buy; they buy Company B, paying out the shareholders, and B merges into A and keeps the debt. I'm having a struggle with whether this seems moral or not. B is saddled with a big debt, and employees of company B may suffer as a result of this (anything from losing bonuses or profit sharing opportun…

The morality of it depends on what you believe owners owe employees. There's clearly no objective basis there, it's down to a given person's moral beliefs. In my observation, you'll get a very different response to that from one business owner to the next. Some owners/operators take it as an intense matter of morality to safeguard their employees, others could care less and believe they owe their employees between nothing and very little.

If you look at the top dozen economies in terms of prosperity or economic growth, you'll find a lot of different cultural approaches to that owner/operator-worker relationship, and they all have managed to generate rather spectacular results. France, US, Germany, South Korea, Japan, China, Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, Denmark - all have between slightly and very different approaches.

It also takes you down a road of other similar questions.

Joe loads up on his credit cards and puts his family at risk. Should that be illegal? Is it immoral? (arguably it's immoral)

Social contracts are a fascinating thing and they're essentially all-pervasive across everything people do. We go out and drive on the roads with a sort of social contract, that properly we're not going to act like maniacs and endanger each other.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Company A borrows $4 billion; it's leveraged against the company they're going to buy; they buy Company B, paying out the shareholders, and B merges into A and keeps the debt. I'm having a struggle with whether this seems moral or not. B is saddled with a big debt, and employees of company B may suffer as a result of this (anything from losing bonuses or profit sharing opportun…

The morality of it depends on what you believe owners owe employees. There's clearly no objective basis there, it's down to a given person's moral beliefs. In my observation, you'll get a very different response to that from one business owner to the next. Some owners/operators take it as an intense matter of morality to safeguard their employees, others could care less and believe they owe their employees between no…

The difference here is that it's the acquired company that owes the debt, as opposed to the acquiring company owing a debt with the acquired company as collateral.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#23
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

You might be interested in a HN submission from last week, a WaPo story of a brief history of Toys 'R' Us' recent financial troubles. In short: > The company has struggled to pay down nearly $8 billion in debt — much of it dating to a 2005 leveraged buyout — and has had trouble finding a buyer. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16588564

Thanks for the link! I didn't see that submission and there's a great string of comments about Venture vs Vulture Capitalists there.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#24
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this.

...thy name is Bain.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#26
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

The irony of your statement when it was the leaders of the free market managing the finances...

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All in a day’s work for Bain Capital.

They have more wins than losses. And that's saying something, considering they only take on highly distresses companies.

Where 'win' means they cut quality to shit, sell off assets, fire a bunch of people and hire the cheapest contractors to do the work, everyone good leaves, and the company reputation is forever ruined, ... but Bain comes out ahead. And 'loss' means, well, pretty much the same thing.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#28
post #15
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

Two words: leveraged buyout. I'm not sure what purpose they serve other than to create debt. Working at a company that was acquired by a smaller fish with a $4 billion loan, it made things painful when cuts were constantly made to pay interest on debt. Somehow, the situation benefited the shareholders that signed off on the deal.

Well, to be fair, leveraged buyouts can be a useful tool to take over a company when there is a bad management team or an opportunity to generate a synergy when it is bought by another player in the same segment. For example this was recently the case with Dell and Hilton.

But generally the high amount of leverage implies aggressive cost cutting, which negatively impacts the employees and in some cases R&D, which in turn means risking the future sustainability of the company for short term profits.

If you're interested in the topic, "Barbarians at the Gate" is a great book to understand the in and outs of LBO's. The writing style also makes it fun to read.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, the Vectrex, I bought one on clearance from Toys R Us when they were discontinued in 83/84. Such a fun console

I've recently got back into retro gaming, having somewhat tired of the cost and constant updates to modern titles, and looked into picking up a Vectrex because I never had one as a kid: working examples are now going for £900+ in the UK so I dropped the idea. EDIT: Having said that, I just checked eBay again, and it seems like availability is up and prices are down. A bunch of auctions under £100, and some Buy It Now…

Our (richer) cousins got bored of their vextrex, so it passed to my siblings and I. At the time I thought it was near magical, not needing to take over the family-television, or load games from cassette.

I still remember the fun of playing games with the wrong overlay placed over the screen. For those who don't know the vextrex used vector graphics, only in white, and alongside the cartridges each game contained a transparent piece of plastic with colours, score-labels, etc, which you placed over the screen.

The wikipedia article has a couple of brief pictures that make this more clear than my early-morning words could:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrex

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The morality of it depends on what you believe owners owe employees. There's clearly no objective basis there, it's down to a given person's moral beliefs. In my observation, you'll get a very different response to that from one business owner to the next. Some owners/operators take it as an intense matter of morality to safeguard their employees, others could care less and believe they owe their employees between no…

The difference here is that it's the acquired company that owes the debt, as opposed to the acquiring company owing a debt with the acquired company as collateral.

This is bizarre. I did not know that leveraged buyouts could work like this.
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