Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA • Hacker News Board

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#101

Post by thrden » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:00 AM UTC

bfuller wrote: post #97

thrden wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately we've had a very poor week for internet freedom. However much of it has been the result of corporate overreach. This week: Reddit bans Cigar, beer and Alchohol trading subreddits, toy bb gun sales, and gun related coupon clippers Youtube (and facebook?) banned Channels featuring guns they deem inappropriate. Including videos regarding proper safety and maintenance. It has become clear to be that the int…

>This week: Reddit bans Cigar, beer and Alchohol trading subreddits, toy bb gun sales, and gun related coupon clippers Reddit also banned subs that were used for sourcing marijuana, designer drugs, xanax.. direct deals onsite. i'm not defending the drug war, but when you only include the subs you wrote the move looks really silly. if people were only doing giveaways and trading toy bb guns, those subs would still be…

While I'm not saying they should have banned one, and not the other it would have been entirely possible to say ban an opioids sales subreddit, but not the bb-gun subreddit. It would have been trivial to simply make the rule such that only illicit sales/transactions were banned. They decided to create these rules and if the rules make reddit look foolish than maybe thats because they are.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#102

Post by deelowe » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:00 AM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #87

valuearb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s completely limiting free choice and voluntary interactions between consenting adults. A huge personals section just got shut down. Unless you think 100% of personal ads are coerced sex trafficking, which would be rather crazy opinion. If you truly wanted to curb sex trafficking, you’d legalize prostitution, not drive it farther underground.

How... does that follow? To reduce slavery, legalize prostitution? There must be some steps in between I am missing.

You're missing the fact that virtually no one wants to have sex with slaves. If a legal, regulated industry existed for people to get what they wanted, the illegal market would go away. AFAIK Nevada doesn't have a huge issue with sex slaves.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#103

Post by confounded » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:04 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #100

I just read the text of this bill. The way it reads, the entire online dating industry should be closing its doors...tonight. CEOs of these companies face penalties of up to 25 years in prison. Why were there not massive protests over this? I had never heard of this bill before today.

I recommend that you subscribe to the blog of the EFF, and perhaps consider membership. They’ve been following this law in it’s various guises for quite some time, and providing tools for concerned citizens to contact their representatives effectively.

Here’s some analysis of the proposals from October 2017:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/sex-trafficking-expert...

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#104

Post by deelowe » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #76

extralego wrote: post #54

It seems this and the new Youtube/Reddit bans would push more of this communication to the dark web and/or other private communication channels. I don't think I am comfortable with that. But, hopefully it leads to more support and push for privacy and decentralization. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-21/youtube-b... https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ne9v5k/reddit...

There is something to be said for making a discouraged activity harder to do. Yes, it pushes these people underground but in a sense that is good as it makes it harder for them and harder to access them. In return it’s not much harder for authorities to infiltrate and there’s less non-illicit activity to filter. Not perfect, but it’s not always bad.

If the goal of this is to improve the mistreatment of women and not a thinly veiled attempt to enforce one's morals on others, then it is categorically "bad." Let's look at this another way. Say you're a sex slave who was just beat up by your pimp. Would you go to the police and admit to a decade of prostitution? Sure it may reduce the amount of prostitution going on, but for those who are in the "industry" this only makes things worse for them. All the power is now back in the hands of the pimps and gangs again.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#105

Post by narrator » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #100

I just read the text of this bill. The way it reads, the entire online dating industry should be closing its doors...tonight. CEOs of these companies face penalties of up to 25 years in prison. Why were there not massive protests over this? I had never heard of this bill before today.

Meanwhile, net neutrality, which wasn't even policy until the Obama administration gets huge press all over the place. What happened to Silicon Valley's political activism?

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#106

Post by confounded » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:07 AM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #83

flamedoge wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

decentralized network can't come soon enough. I foresee YC, Reddit, Youtube, FB, and alike get supplanted by technology that has no ownership.

Every single decentralized version of those sites has died a death due to a) being pretty awful b) attracting completely terrible users as it’s base c) terrible user experience. What do you see changing?

Ordinary people wanting an alternative, would, I imagine, change all three.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#107

Post by confounded » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #38

danso wrote: post #30

How are Craigslist personals more affected by this law/regulation than other semi-anonymous dating sites? Or am I mistaken in thinking that there is any dating site that has the same anonymity as Craigslist?

It could be that the risk reward calculation is different for CL than other sites. Personals is just one part of a much larger site for CL where as a dating site's only business is personals so they really don't have anything to lose by taking the risk.

Right. Oh! Except for 25 years in prison.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#108

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #95

jacobush wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How... does that follow? To reduce slavery, legalize prostitution? There must be some steps in between I am missing.

Legal prostitutes can call the police for help from pimps or others trying to abuse or coerce them, without fear of arrest. Legal prostitutes are incentivized to work with the police to report others being coerced, it’s competition. Bringing things out into the open helps clean them up. Keeping them in the dark allows evil to multiply. The next time Prohibition helped the people it was trying to protect will also be…

Also, and directly related to your Prohibition comment, and to war on drugs - it's a matter of economics. Supply and demand. There is strong demand that you can't really eliminate. If you keep supply illegal, then supply becomes handled by organized crime, and all proceeds from the sale of goods/services go into growing organized crime.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#109

Post by Bud » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

rpearl wrote: post #72

quotemstr wrote: post #68

I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals in any effort to "fix" society and "help" people. Lawmakers and advocates, have some epistemic humility and acknowledge that your own perspective may be mistaken. Not everything is oppression. Not every activity is injustice. Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

The goal of the legislation in question is specifically to help individuals that have been coerced, against their free will, into sex trafficking. It is not about voluntary interactions between consenting adults. The legislation might be misguided or ineffective--I haven't really looked into it--but it very definitely isn't about restricting the free choice of individuals.

This is an extraordinarily broad action to take in response to sex trafficking. It clearly reaches into all kinds of unintended areas.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#110

Post by gardnr » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:16 AM UTC

Doesn't it seem likely that an alternative will pop up which is outside the jurisdiction of FOSTA which may or may not cooperate with USA law enforcement as well?