The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees • Hacker News Board

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#251

Post by crawfordcomeaux » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:15 AM UTC

vageli wrote: post #164

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get to choose your actions. All actions are allowed, though you may not like the consequences. > "It kills me every time, but I NEED my paycheck more than I prefer to help my fellow human." What's killing you here? "It" is your decision to comply. A more active phrasing might be "I kill me every time I choose to comply with management's requests..." Also, it sounds like you chose to believe, if only by accident,…

> Also, it sounds like you chose to believe, if only by accident, that money is a human need. This is false...we simply have cultures around the world where asking our community for support is not considered acceptable. Again, this is a lie. If you ask enough people for help, you'll eventually find someone willing. There's more than enough of everything to go around, especially money. But ultimately, it all comes bac…

Yes, for now. Capitalism won't be dismantled instantly and will need to be phased out. It'll happen as people around the world relearn it's ok to ask for what we need.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#252

Post by thwarted » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

rland wrote: post #202

DeusExMachina wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These “idyllic” societies still had rough lives. Nature is not only a paradise. It’s ripe with disease, infections, predators killing you and your cattle, children’s and mothers dying during childbirth, droughts, and famines. And wars exist also, and especially, among tribes. Growing food without modern technologies, fertilizers and pesticides was also an extremely hard job. It’s not like growing tomatoes in your bac…

This is something I have given a lot of thought to. I saw footage of a gazelle being hunted by a cheetah. My reflexive thought is -- how unimaginably horrible. Here is an animal which is evolved specifically to hunt you down and kill you. And every moment you spend trying to live is a moment lived in fear of this awful creature. What a life! My horror does not even compare to the horror of this life. But, watching th…

I saw footage of a gazelle being hunted by a cheetah. My reflexive thought is -- how unimaginably horrible. Here is an animal which is evolved specifically to avoid your attempts to eat it. And every moment you spend trying to live is a moment lived in fear of this awful creature. What a life! My horror does not even compare to the horror of this life.

But, watching the cheetah cut off its prey and pounce with incredible precision and grace, there is another thought: that the cheetah was also born to eat. It uses its God given abilities to the absolute maximum possible extent. During the chase, it is in a state of complete flow, more complete than any Olympic athlete could ever hope for. The sheer concentration required, the exertion, the split-second decision-making required to avoid dying of hunger. To master this state is to capture the prey, and it must feel incredible to finally catch a gazelle. Incredible in a way that is impossible for a human living a modern lifestyle to fathom.

To fail means to die, of course, and that cannot feel good to a cheetah. But it's just death. We all die anyway. Human beings, cheetah, gazelles. It is a simple fact that you will die.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#253

Post by dizzystar » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:20 AM UTC

ghettoimp wrote: post #173

dizzystar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are so fortunate to only have to work a 9to5, there is no excuse to waste these years. How many musicians do you know that play in clubs? Most are working two restaurant jobs, renting a room, and scraping money together to buy strings, just for the chance to entertain a crowd for little or no pay. It's all perspective, really.

“Only” work 9 to 5? Don’t forget your commute. And you’ll still need your wife to get the kids to school and pick them up. Hope you earn enough for that and she’s happy st home. And you should help out with dinner and the lunches and homework. And when you get the kids to bed it’s 8 and you’re exhausted. Enjoy your weekend.

Two restaurant jobs means 3 commutes with a 60 to 70 hour work week.

But true, I didn't add in family.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#254

Post by mancerayder » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:23 AM UTC

inapis wrote: post #241

mancerayder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It WILL become a problem. The biggest issue with RSI and other repetive-use injuries (which happens in many professions and even athletics, especially with bad form) is that it happens slowly, then suddenly. It's so slow that it's discomfort. And you ignore that discomfort, especially as your concentration is on a computer monitor with important stuff to worry about being displayed on it. Also, sometimes inflammation…

As a 25yo and someone dealing with RSI, I am terrified. What do you recommend for dealing with neck and the back? Currently, have switched out my mouse for a trackball in the right hand and a trackpad in the left (though occasionally). Next up is the keyboard and chair.

Learn proper posture. This is hard and takes time. It requires persistence and patience. I'm no expert and it's too long to go into even what I know which is not much, but at the very least your posture should be one where you head rests above your shoulders and not in front, your shoulders aren't rounded forward and your elbows are at a 90-degree angle.

The body adapts to whatever you do. If you crawl around all day long on all fours scratching at rocks, your body will adapt to that, too. Adaptations have a price.

The height of your chair and the desk are critical here. [1] I have a desk that I can adjust between standing and normal, and I switch between the two when I can. That can be expensive, though.

I started to make a list of muscular issues (interior shoulder rotation, pelvic tilt) but I realized that first, I'm not qualified to provide the top problems that everyone faces, and second, I'm not really sure which resources to best learn from. Instead, I suggest people spend some time searching in YouTube (or the web) for 'computer posture problems' or 'shoulder pain computer' or 'neck pain text neck' and looking at the Physical Therapy links, sometimes which have a lot of information.

At a high level what works for ME is to 'switch it up.' Use left mouse and right mouse. Stand and sit. I never use a laptop, but at my age I've reached the point that my body punishes me viciously if I sit hunched over for even a couple of hours of time or angle my shoulder, neck or right forearm too long in one bad position.

Body awareness is important and it's hard to convey what that really means - I learned that from a PT and from weight training. It's not something you can read and gain.

But you can be aware of shitty posture when you're using your phone by looking down at it - a HUGE cause of neck pain. At first glance this site isn't bad for a starting point.[2].

1 - http://www.computer-posture.co.uk/shoulder-pain-computer/

2 - https://www.spine-health.com/blog/modern-spine-ailment-text-...

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#255

Post by watwut » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:27 AM UTC

mathgladiator wrote: post #188

Trundle wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equivalent animals certainly don't spend all day toiling. We aren't ants. I don't see any reason to believe that was the case for us.

For many animals, every day is a fight to live. Constantly looking for food.

Cats sleep 16 hours a day for example. Animals in nature are not constantly looking for food, except grass eaters who ear whole day.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#256

Post by internetman55 » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:27 AM UTC

reality_czech wrote: post #94

The part which really makes me angry is that this guy probably also employs graduate students who make minimum wage, have terrible health care, and no job security. But he doesn't feel like that's important enough to mention.

My wage at some random school is roughly 2k/month for 20 hours work, ignoring free tuition.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#257

Post by fulafel » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:30 AM UTC

remar wrote: post #41

osrec wrote: post #24

Work has become a strange thing. I see people foregoing their best years stuck in an office, in the hope they can enjoy their later years. What utter nonsense. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but society has got something very wrong, as our work culture seems to surgically remove the wonder and enjoyment from our days. Hardly surprising that it drives people to ill health. Glad I broke out of that cycle a long…

I'm sure you're aware of this, but a lot of people just don't have the financial freedom to even begin thinking about a decision like this, or it ends up requiring a lot of energy to make that plan viable. And as you've probably experienced, energy is not exactly abundant after a day/week/month/etc in an environment like that...

It's true that not everyone can do it, but it's also true that most professional people who say this are just mentally stuck in an expensive lifestyle, and/or unwilling go somewhere cheaper.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#258

Post by internetman55 » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #140

dfsdfdsfds wrote: post #2

It makes it sound as if work was more healthy in the past. Was it? When? I know hunter gatherer times were supposed to be paradise, but anything since then? Farming sounds rather arduous. Or what about mining, or working in factories where safety measures have not yet been invented?

I can't really say for certain, but the idea of a boring, average American life in the 90s/early 2000s was having a 9-5 job and watching TV after you finished work. I haven't seen a posting for a 9-5 job in years. But I see 8-5, 9-6, and increasingly 8-6 and beyond. You get a "lunch break", but don't stroll off too far just in case we need you (wink wink). Then once work's "over", many people are called in for extra…

The bad part to me about jobs like that was how you were just spending massive hours doing stupid things. A lot of people would enjoy working 10 hours a day in a highly engaging, challenging environment. Instead everyone is so shot from overworking, stress, poor interpersonal relationships, etc. that it sometimes feels like you're working all day on a project nobody needs that doesn't work led by a manager who doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't care to. Basically like you're getting paid to get punched in the face rather than to do a job.

I honestly had managers at the Kmart retail store I worked at who struck me as smarter (and certainly more humble) than at least one software manager I've had

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#259

Post by slphil » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:35 AM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #227

DeusExMachina wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this idea bizarre. It's like humans enjoyed their time for millennia and only now we have to work. For all human history, the conditions of people were dire. Today people might be stuck in an office in their "best year", but people in the past had to toil all day to barely scrape by and didn't even have that many years to live. It's only now that we live these comfortable lives with houses, heating, electricit…

This is actually false. The average American worker today works more hours per year than a 14th century peasant ( http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medie... ). Hunter-gatherers only worked 2-3 hours per day. Despite technology allowing us to work less, we work more. Yes we should be grateful of technological advancement, but too many people are unnecessarily depressed and suicidal, and it doesn't…

To some degree, yes, peasants worked less than modern humans, but also had to extend large amounts of effort to prepare food, attain wood for fires and light, build their own structures, etc. I slightly romanticize medieval life so I won't convince you that their lives were hellish and awful, but we take for granted the amount of work our society does for us.

Also, the idea of the high-leisure hunter gatherer is false. This is ideology masquerading as archaeology/history, and it confirms the biases of people who have genuine criticisms of modern life. http://quillette.com/2017/12/16/romanticizing-hunter-gathere...

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#260

Post by watwut » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #215

someone7x wrote: post #19

> I see a workplace that has become shockingly inhumane. A thousand times this. Very few of the lessons my parents taught me apply in the corporate world. Be honest and straight with people, assume good intent, take responsibility, etc. All that behavior will do is paint you as naive. Sure there's room for honesty and responsibility, but only when used appropriately (strategically). Strikes me as acutely inhumane eve…

> All that behavior will do is paint you as naive. Then you aren't doing it right. There is something exceedingly shocking about a brutal bluntness. Master this and you will forever change your perspective on job interviews, relationships, marriage, and leadership. You will know when you really nail it because people will begin to describe you as articulate or eloquent. Honesty is highly valued, which is counter-intu…

The oddest thing about this culture is how people perceive "honesty" as equivalent of brutal. Honest praise exists too. Honesty means also saying things like "that was actually Andy idea". Honest criticism is almost never dunking on somebody till you tear them down. Honest criticism is nuanced and labels minor or honest mistake as minor or honest.

Honesty is not bullying and if someone's idea of honesty is that, then that someone is likely a dick.

Honesty is not about unleashing ones negative emotions on other people, but geek culture tend to equate the two and then proceed from there.