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Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

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Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#171
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assessment of DHS and CIA, per congressional briefings. The Is that Comey's hearing? I remember listening to that. He believed that Russians hacked the DNC but he has not seen any evidence of it and he (the FBI) had no access to the servers. He says it comes from believing Crowdstrike. It seems the only solid peace of evidence comes from this one company. Crowdstrike has made up stuff before. In their report about…

Not Comey's hearing, no. There are other hearings that you can search for by copying and pasting what I wrote verbatim into Google to find. If you disagree with Crowdstrike's methodologies, then by all means let's get specific. They were the principle investigators on the case. They are well regarded. I didn't read the Ukraine link you provided because 1. I have no idea if the team was even the same and 2. it's likel…

> I didn't read the Ukraine link you provided because 1. I have no idea if the team was even the same and 2. it's likely they've been wrong once before, so it's immaterial.

Just pointing out the same company had made pretty large factual errors in their report were even the people on the side they supported had to publicly refute them.

Not only that but the founder of Crowdstrike might be a bit biased. He is a member of the Atlantic Council http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/about/experts/list/dmitri-alp... which traditionally is critical of Russia. That's fine, it's good thing they are but it introduces a conflict of interest. Moreover he is a donor to the Clinton Foundation to the tune of $10M. Again nothing wrong with that per se. He is free to donate, but that also is a conflict of interest. And had this been a forgotten memo or a minor incident, that's fine, but it seems a whole lot of articles, reporting, twitter messages, TV time and hearings were based on just the finding of this one company.

> I literally don't understand the words you wrote about Wikileaks. Yes, I don't believe Assange.

Sorry for being confusing. I mean to say Wikileaks have been pretty factual. They pick their stories based on their political bias or most media impact but once they say something, I have not seem them blatantly lie before. So when he said "these did not come from Russia or a another state actor" I'd have to see more evidence to say "clearly he is lying"

> I don't get your reaction to the link.

Again for for confusion. I thanked you for the link. I wasn't being facetious. I learned something new about Assange nagging on Trump Jr to leak tax documents and asking them to mention more of leaked emails.

> You want DHS to investigate the DNC hack 2 years after the fact?

I want to see more solid claims behind a year+ of wasted propaganda effort. There has to be something more credible there.

> Who ever mentioned Reddit?

I did. Because the first part of the article was talking how Trump contradicts himself. Yeah he contradicts himself. It looks like trolling to me and everyone is taking the bait so he knows how to waste everyone's time and get them to talk about his spelling mistakes and contradictions. I don't see how that is proof of collusion between him and Russia.

> Donald Trump is a liar so he is not guilty of collusion?

I say he is liar and a troll based on what I have seen. Haven't decided if he does it consciously and deliberately or it is just his personalty and he just says whatever he feels currently without thinking to match with anything he said in the past.

> You seem intent on minimizing this to the point of being gratuitously contrary. Thank you for the discussion.

Nah just trying to get to the bottom of things. I find this focus on Russia collusion pretty interesting. I've been talking about media and how PR works for a while. Personally I think it is disappointing to see this much effort wasted, because that time, energy could have been spent on something else.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#172
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whatabout McCarthyism? What about the founder of Wikileaks working for Russian propaganda media, which is what we're discussing here? I'm not sure what your motivation to deflect on this is.

How is he deflecting? He's talking about McCarthyism, which is very relevant to the subject at hand.

Because it's a false equivalency. Nobody is accusing Julian Assange of something that he isn't guilty of, and it's attempting to change the subject when faced with the facts.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#173

At this point I very much want to know what data about me has been collected by private companies. I'm getting sick of not knowing. I'm repulsed by people divining or extrapolating. I want to fucking know.

Whatever you ever filled in or posted to the servers of a private company under your real identity is "data about me that has been collected by private companies". It's not that complicated.

Most places now (for compliance reasons) allow you to delete old accounts and old posts either through a button or if you email customer support or the webmaster.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that interesting. Obama is a typical politician. Trump is a bullshitting, dysfunctional, con-artist who would never have been elected under normal circumstances. Trump is not politics as usual.

> Obama is a typical politician. > Trump is a bullshitting, dysfunctional, con-artist Therefore, Trump is a typical politician.

Haha, no.

Typical politicians are dishonest but they accept the premise of honesty. In other words, they care that they can plausibly claim to be honest. They form lies in ways to attempt to get away with it and be accepted as true.

Trump has no premise of honesty. He doesn't care what's true or not. He doesn't bother lying and hoping to get away with it. He just wants people to play along and he can know who's loyal by who plays along or not.

That's just one of a massive list of distinctions. The short of it is: typical politicians accept the social norms of their corrupt political world. Obama was one of those. Trump, on the other hand, doesn't give a shit about social norms, and that may be one reason some people find him refreshing — too bad that some of the social norms are positive, and throwing it all away is reckless.

Anyway, my pithy initial reply wasn't clear enough, so it works for the joke. But really, Trump is not a typical politician. He's not even anything like a typical real-estate developer.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#175
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Comey's hearing, no. There are other hearings that you can search for by copying and pasting what I wrote verbatim into Google to find. If you disagree with Crowdstrike's methodologies, then by all means let's get specific. They were the principle investigators on the case. They are well regarded. I didn't read the Ukraine link you provided because 1. I have no idea if the team was even the same and 2. it's likel…

> I didn't read the Ukraine link you provided because 1. I have no idea if the team was even the same and 2. it's likely they've been wrong once before, so it's immaterial. Just pointing out the same company had made pretty large factual errors in their report were even the people on the side they supported had to publicly refute them. Not only that but the founder of Crowdstrike might be a bit biased. He is a member…

Do you retract your statement? https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-gucc...

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#176
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it's also a known tactic for deflection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Its also become a bit of a convenient shield for many to avoid confronting/admitting their own side's double-standards or bad-faith power politicking. Not accusing you of the above, but "Whataboutism" is as old as double-standards it draws attention to. But IMHO the accusation is more often use for ill than for good.

It's a false dichotomy to assume that everyone has a "side", and pushing that is part of the deflection.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#177
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't read the Ukraine link you provided because 1. I have no idea if the team was even the same and 2. it's likely they've been wrong once before, so it's immaterial. Just pointing out the same company had made pretty large factual errors in their report were even the people on the side they supported had to publicly refute them. Not only that but the founder of Crowdstrike might be a bit biased. He is a member…

Do you retract your statement? https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-gucc...

Looks good so far. Pretty exciting, can't wait to find more info. Would be good to have the name and hopefully an indictment. I understand it probably won't be acted on unless the person travels overseas but still. It seems there is some real evidence there - a particular IP address.

In general, I never quite could figure out Guccifer 2.0. It seemed like it was multiple people, just based on going from terribly broken English to fluent within the same paragraph. Which would be consistent with this part of the story

---

Sometime after its hasty launch, the Guccifer persona was handed off to a more experienced GRU officer, according to a source familiar with the matter. The timing of that handoff is unclear, but Guccifer 2.0’s last blog post, from Jan. 12, 2017, evinced a far greater command of English that the persona’s earlier efforts.

---

> Do you retract your statement?

Not yet. I'd want wait and see what happens with this one. There was another similar story of a written confession from someone in jail who claimed they were order to hack the DNC. http://www.newsweek.com/russian-hacker-stealing-clintons-ema... that one says it was FSB not GRU but they probably work together. I haven't heard much since.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#178

There is sadly a very clear reason why China banned Facebook - its use has the potential to destroy social consensus, which is necessary for social cohesion. I’m not surprised Zuck has been hiding, in his heart of hearts, he realizes his invention has sort of destroyed America (and Britain, but I concede he probably cares less about that).

How does that explain WeChat? No, I think they quickly realized the power social media has to shape social consensus, which is what this whole scandal ultimately boils down to. They banned Facebook to eliminate competitors for their home grown (and highly controlled) domestic alternative vs. an American company.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that interesting. Obama is a typical politician. Trump is a bullshitting, dysfunctional, con-artist who would never have been elected under normal circumstances. Trump is not politics as usual.

Well, there are some trends (such as dropping life expectancy for whites without college degree [0]), which are without precedent. It's literally unheard for developed country to have a dropping life expectancy in XX century. So, maybe US being functional democracy, with working feeback loop from voters to elites (no sarcasm here) did something extraordinary because of extraordinary circumstances. I hold no strong op…

Oh, there's a ton extraordinary going on. Our economic system has been a farce for years. We financialized everything and fake a working economy. The financial sector's portion of the GDP is so high, it's patently pathological. The internet is still young but has finally reached the vast majority of everyone. We're in the last years of any chance to avoid massive climate catastrophe as we already experience the early realities of climate change. And automation is truly in the beginnings of taking over the last unskilled jobs where (unlike all past cases) it won't merely be a shift from one industry to another. I could go on…

I was not saying that everything today would be normal if not for Trump.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#180
post #147
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the exploitation of massive amounts of personal data from unwilling participants is ok as long as you agree with the person doing it?

From the words of the person in charge of this: https://twitter.com/cld276/status/975568208886484997 --- They [Facebook] were very candid that they allowed us to do things they wouldn’t have allowed someone else to do because they were on our side. --- You just have to be on the right "side" that's all. I wonder if anyone went back and ensure they deleted all the data they harvested, then went back and verified that…

Of course, the same person tweeted immediately after that, replying to the tweet you quote:

"I am also 100% positive that Facebook activity recruits and staffs people that are on the other side."

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