Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
91–100 of 156 posts
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#92One thing I think IBM has failed to grasp about POWER architecture is how to get people to use it. Lots of people in tech talk about being interested in trying it, it has a number of interesting characteristics, but the barrier for entry is fairly high. It's possible to get a POWER8 based server on Softlayer, IBM's cloud product, but not as a VM. You can get one as a bare metal server, but you can't get one for an ho…
This. A million times this. There are no entry-level POWER machines, SPARC machines. There is no entry-level IBM i or Z. There isn't even a software emulator for i (and even for Z, where there is a very nice emulator, you can't legally run anything remotely current on non-IBM hardware). You can get a cheap POWER or SPARC on Ebay, with a sharp price drop when the equipment is EOL'ed, but that's no way to entice people…
IBM might be having trouble letting go of their old model. If you want their amazing hardware they’ll do everything for you. Which means on day one you have none of the expertise needed to reverse that decision.
If you come from a world where lock-in is normal then you may well build something that locks everybody out.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
IBM will never understand this but few, if any, architectures have made it into the datacenter that were not first affordable for experimenters and enthusiasts. The burden of proof is on those claiming the pricing does not present a barrier to entry to the ecosystem. I am curious about developing for Power. Please link me to an entry-level system I can buy on the web.
^^^ this should be the top comment. Sun/SPARC for example, benefited greatly in Dot-Com v1.0 because so many universities had great prices via edu discounts. The sysadmins and other Unix users all cut their teeth on Sun boxes; so when they got jobs they took along their familiarity with Sun, which resulted in a lot of sales.
And as a developer you could get a basic v100 (or was it v120?) 1U 'server' from Sun really cheaply. Sure it was a single CPU with a PATA disk and no hotswap or redundant components, but it was a cheap SPARC you could test your stuff on.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are still useful though. If you want to build an 7-node cluster of 2GB nodes on a single Mini ITX motherboard, it's even cheap. And requires no messy cables. https://www.pine64.org/?product=clusterboard-with-7-module-s... and seven https://www.pine64.org/?product=sopine-a64
That's neat. I had heard of the PINE64 board but never the SOPINE. Curious, have you implemented any projects on this? Seems like it might be neat for testing a small distributed system.
I'm still building a cluster of Pi Zeros connected via a USB hub. Since I'm doing it on my spare time, it's not going fast.
The point of clusters like this is not the speed, but the fact it's a cluster, with all the bottlenecks a cluster has.
On USB it seems I'll have to route all traffic between the nodes via the cluster controller, which will also serve the shared NFS volume.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
IBM already released patches for this, at least for POWER7+. Interestingly the Meltdown issue seems "only" to affect the L1 cache, so L2 does not need to be evicted. Raptor says all Talos systems will be patched prior to shipping. https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Speculative_Execution_Vulnera...
Patching POWER for Spectre/Meltdown was a pain but we are done with it. You have to apply patches to the LPAR/OS, VIOS and firmware. IBM has acknowledged that there will be a performance hit but have not provided any quantified numbers that I have seen so far.
https://ibm.biz/BdZjPy
"All POWER8 and POWER9 results in this table reflect performance with firmware and Operating System updates to mitigate Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures issue numbers ... known as Spectre and Meltdown"
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have actual benchmarks of x86 vs. Power 9 or are you just talking out your ass?
With all the stuff running on x86 for the past 30 years + all the perf optimizations in compilers it's not hard to figure. If ARM or Power were faster than x86 we would be using it right now on servers, most of the top500 HPC clusters run on x86_64 ( Intel Xeon ).
I don't know why you would think speed is the only thing that determines what is popular.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#97One thing I think IBM has failed to grasp about POWER architecture is how to get people to use it. Lots of people in tech talk about being interested in trying it, it has a number of interesting characteristics, but the barrier for entry is fairly high. It's possible to get a POWER8 based server on Softlayer, IBM's cloud product, but not as a VM. You can get one as a bare metal server, but you can't get one for an ho…
An interesting discussion to be sure. As far as cloud based access go, off the top of my head both Oregon State and Nimbix give access to P8/P9 instances for developers, free or cheap. One of our members, Raptor do a nice high performance dev workstation, pretty sure they do everything from a mobo+CPU combo to complete systems. I think lower end than that might well come, we certainly see it as something we'd like to…
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have I been to your house?!
Does that mean it doesn't boot? I will concede one point: it was not easy to purchase. I prefer to host my personal site on Power hardware; I started with AIX in the 3.2.5 days and I ran Floodgap on an Apple Network Server 500 for the better part of 14 years. I wanted to get a POWER7 to replace it in 2010, I budgeted $15k for it, and IBM wouldn't take my money. I couldn't find _any_ IBM VAR who would do an end-user s…
He said he's never seen one, not that they don't exist.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#99I can see China running with ARM and POWER, ditching Intel entirely. Google, on the other hand would need a reason to switch. Somewhere there's a spreadsheet with a number for energy cost savings that would make it worth it for Google to switch architectures. I've heard it's as low as 10%.
> I can see China running with ARM and POWER, ditching Intel entirely. China has Zhaoxin, which develops domestic x86-compatible cores that have received massive state funding, despite little commercial success. They way it looks, I think that China has decided to stick with x86, with Zhaoxin as an "escape valve" for the case where chip supply from Intel and AMD gets threatened.
If I were China I'd be cultivating a friendly chip fab for my high assurance platforms. There's no way China trusts Intel or AMD chips for classified processing.
Re: Power 9 May Dent X86 Servers: Alibaba, Google, Tencent Test IBM Systems
#100> Power 9 is IBM’s first to use standard DIMMs, opening a door to other standard components that are, overall, cutting system costs by 20% to 50% Glad to see them throwing in the towel on a pricey and proprietary component. Competition is good.
Didn’t IBM make exactly this same mistake thirty five years ago with PCs??