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Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

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Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#61

Post by hinkley »

ColinWright wrote: post #11
mtreis86 wrote: post #5

Wouldn't unary be considered the least complex?

Which language/society/culture uses unary?

Some very dead ones. Unary works like hash marks. We have archaeological records of that number system but GP is wrong. Doing multiplication in your head with unary would be a horrible experience. And any number over ten would put the listener to sleep.

I suspect in a unary language system people would invent their own counting strategy in their head.

Edit: ah but Wikipedia reminds me that gauge systems such as for grinding or wire use unary for negative numbers. Eg 000 guage wire or OO ground flour.

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#62

Post by xavieralexandre »

no_identd wrote: post #46

A LOT of these have massive errors. I strongly recommend comparing all that to this paper: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5ca1/fa0ffca55e9003053de2f5... - Harald Hammarström - Rarities in Numeral Systems (2009) And this page: https://mpi-lingweb.shh.mpg.de/numeral/ "Numeral Systems of the World's Languages" By the way: If anyone can find a digital copy of this paper from 1840 by Augustin-Louis Cauchy (yes, THAT Cau…

Comptes rendus hebdomadaires des séances de l'Académie des Sciences

Tome XI, p.789 (16 novembre 1840)

Found in

Oeuvres complètes d'Augustin Cauchy

1ère série

Tome V

III. Notes et articles extraits des comptes rendus hebdomadaires des séances de l'Académie des Sciences. (Suite.)

105. Calculs numériques. sur les moyens d'éviter les erreurs dans les calculs numériques.

https://www.e-rara.ch/zut/content/pageview/5702727

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#63

Post by [deleted] »

hinkley wrote: post #61
ColinWright wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which language/society/culture uses unary?

Some very dead ones. Unary works like hash marks. We have archaeological records of that number system but GP is wrong. Doing multiplication in your head with unary would be a horrible experience. And any number over ten would put the listener to sleep. I suspect in a unary language system people would invent their own counting strategy in their head. Edit: ah but Wikipedia reminds me that gauge systems such as for g…

[deleted]

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#64

Post by empath75 »

unwind wrote: post #33
empath75 wrote: post #7

I think they're understanding the complexity of the Japanese number system by quite a lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_counter_word

Did you mean "underestimating"?

I actually meant understating. But that works too.

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#65

Post by jessaustin »

ColinWright wrote: post #11
mtreis86 wrote: post #5

Wouldn't unary be considered the least complex?

Which language/society/culture uses unary?

Probably lots of neolithic tribes could be said to have unary number schemes, but such schemes would max out at e.g. 6 instead of 100.

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#66

Post by panglott »

amelius wrote: post #29

Nice to see that Mandarin and Japanese have simple number systems compared to English. It might be worthwhile to learn them and impress your friends while you're reading numbers from restaurant menu-cards :)

Apparently the person who compiled this has never tried to actually count items in Japanese, to figure out which of the two number systems to use and which counter words to use.

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#67

Post by kra3 »

dingo_bat wrote: post #34
jazzyb wrote: post #6

I don't understand how the author is judging complexity. The top one, Huli, is a base-15 number system but looks quite regular otherwise. French, on the other hand, switches from a base-10 to a base-20 at 80 and then switches things up at 97. According to the listing, Welsh sits somewhere between these two but it has separate numbering systems for {20s, 40s, 60s, 80s}, {30s, 70s, 90s}, and {50s}. That seems much more…

Agreed. Hindi is ranked 4th most difficult but the system is identical to English (rank 41). Just the symbols for the digits are different. Even they are similar looking!

That, is the problem with transliterating into English. Otherwise it is quite staight forward (even the pronunciation). Also, language's ability to conjugate words has to be considered. Languages branching from sanskrit,

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#68

Post by panglott »

jazzyb wrote: post #6

I don't understand how the author is judging complexity. The top one, Huli, is a base-15 number system but looks quite regular otherwise. French, on the other hand, switches from a base-10 to a base-20 at 80 and then switches things up at 97. According to the listing, Welsh sits somewhere between these two but it has separate numbering systems for {20s, 40s, 60s, 80s}, {30s, 70s, 90s}, and {50s}. That seems much more…

Putting Japanese at such a low complexity shows a lot about the author's criteria and bias.

Japanese numerals are quite easy, but when it comes to actually counting things, it is quite complex. There are two series of numeral words that are used in different contexts, as well as dozens of counter words that pair with a variety of semantic categories. Many combinations or number + noun have quite irregular combinations, like "hatachi" (20 years of age) or "hatsuka" (20th day of the month).

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#69

Post by hmd_imputer »

Moru wrote: post #40
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that a child will perhaps learn to count quicker in Japanese than in French, say, but the complexity and inclusion of factors/compounds also seem like they would push a more complex understanding of number to be adopted. I wonder if a French people make change with 20 Euro-cent coins more often than others do.

I bet they use card instead... In Germany you stand in line waiting for everyone to find exactly the right change, be them young or old. Most people pay with cash even though it seems to get more common to use card. Euro has at least eight different coins. Sweden has 1, 2, 5, 10 as coins but most people still pay with card because it's easier and people are not burned by the big brother syndrome of the WW1/2 :-) Woul…

Another Germany related comment today. Made my day :) It really becomes annoying when you have to wait a minute because an old lady needs to count all her coins in Lidl. Back to the original topic, as someone who can speak a few languages, I find the arguments stated in the article quite interesting. Obviously, just because one speaks Chinese doesn't mean they will definitely be a wunder-kind in math. Yet, it plays an important role in speeding up the learning process.

Re: Number systems of the world, sorted by complexity of counting (2006)

#70

Post by oblio »

davedunkin wrote: post #55
oblio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

67 isn't much better, either. It's 60 + 10 + 7.

77?

Yes, 77, you're right. I can't edit the comment anymore :(

See what happens when you're used to a saner numbering system? I always hear "soixante ..." and my brain goes "6... something" :p

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