Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings • Hacker News Board

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#311

Post by lu11 » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

gnode wrote: post #268

lu11 wrote: post #218

I deleted my Facebook in 2012 because I don't like it. However, scraping user profiles is a privacy problem? What about archive.org that will scrape your personal website so you are never able to get rid of your previous version?

You can prevent crawling (and retroactively remove your site content from the Internet Archive) using robots.txt, with the ia_archiver user agent: https://www.fightcyberstalking.org/how-to-block-your-website...

You can. That doesn't change the fact that they did not ask your permission to scrape your personal data from your personal website. They are many other sites that will do the same. Facebook profile seems to be safer option than personal website if you look at it from the angle of data privacy. You can't walk down the street wearing invisibility cloak in real life. Likewise, you can't have a rich digital life without leaving some of your data here and there. Maybe scraping personal data should be illegal.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#312

Post by kk__ » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

wpasc wrote: post #285

First, I think what happened with Facebook/Cambridge Analytica is appalling. With that said, I think this article is silly and emblematic of poor technology coverage in the media. I think it would be awesome if users really did delete their facebook accounts if they thought these actions crossed some line. But the article cites ~50,000 #deletefacebook mentions. Come on, 50k hashtag shares is evidence of "Users Abando…

This is reporting not analysis.

It's representing the views of people who have quit facebook over Cambridge Analytica and explaining why they did it.

Writing your take on the article is probably in the works and probably takes a lot more time than 2-3 days. Reporting on something is what newspapers mainly do. Analysis and opinion usually comes later and from other sources.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#313

Post by andrepd » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

alekratz wrote: post #274

jjuel wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean do we really think Facebook is the only company with data problems? Is switching to something different really going to make a difference? Deleting your Facebook won't get rid of your data. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, your ISP, your cell carrier all have so much data on you. At this point you are out there in someone's database somewhere. Unless you haven't been on the grid at all which clearly anyone on HN is…

It annoys me that you're getting downvoted with no replies. I completely agree with you. The only way to stop your data from being spread across the web is to never put it there in the first place . I feel like federated systems (Mastodon, Diaspora*, et al) will only make it more difficult to remove your data, because now it's spread across 100 individual servers in 100 individual countries with 100 individuals doing…

Absolutely. You got to think: "what am I getting out of this; is it really worth it?". Maybe you'll then realize that it's best to keep your data out of somebody else's computer.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#314

Post by andrepd » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

magic_beans wrote: post #228

ftlio wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook owns Whats App. It's one of the first thing they acquired with IPO money.

Then what on earth was the WhatsApp CEO thinking when he told people to abandon Facebook?

Ex-CEO. He cashed out already, so he can say whatever he wants.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#315

Post by hokus » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

alekratz wrote: post #274

jjuel wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean do we really think Facebook is the only company with data problems? Is switching to something different really going to make a difference? Deleting your Facebook won't get rid of your data. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, your ISP, your cell carrier all have so much data on you. At this point you are out there in someone's database somewhere. Unless you haven't been on the grid at all which clearly anyone on HN is…

It annoys me that you're getting downvoted with no replies. I completely agree with you. The only way to stop your data from being spread across the web is to never put it there in the first place . I feel like federated systems (Mastodon, Diaspora*, et al) will only make it more difficult to remove your data, because now it's spread across 100 individual servers in 100 individual countries with 100 individuals doing…

There is no end. I suspect multi generational data to be endlessly more nasty.

We do have other approaches. That I can obtain your employment contract, take your picture as you walk in and out of buildings and when you visit the beach, figure out your birth day and who you hang out with...

...doesn't mean I'm allowed to or freely share/sell every detail of your life.

We could for example create a license or permit for gathering a type of data. Like: If you are a dating agency you can ask for peoples sex. If you are a head hunter you may gather data on employment history. If you have a taxi service you can ask for peoples address.

We could also adopt a government issued key for things like signing petitions.

Where the data is stored could also be subject to regulation. Its possible to keep access logs with specific justification for each bit of sensitive information accessed.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#316

Post by coatmatter » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #249

InternetUser wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it all depends on how much user attrition you would say constitutes a "mass exodus." How many millions of former users would that be? Or what percentage from what high-point? By these following reports, there's been a mass exodus in terms of usage among the much-sought-after teenage demographic, and that's been happening from Facebook to Snapchat for at least two years now: Oct 2016: Snapchat Beats Instagra…

Sure, I agree that "mass exodus" is ill-defined. I have nothing to back this up, but I think we can both agree that it is extremely unlikely Cambridge Analytica really has anything to do with the teenagers preferring Snapchat to Facebook.

From what I've been able to gather, teens prefer creating "ephemeral" less-curated content in favour of throwing up "permanent" posts to Facebook (for all/too many to see) until it's past its use by date. So in a sense, they may or may not be more conscious of being seen by their parents who are mostly tech-savvy (compared to past generations anyway).

So if what I just wrote is somewhat true, the commonality between Cambridge Analytica and teens preferring Snapchat to Facebook is actually privacy or lack thereof (perceived or otherwise).

As for mass exodus - Hotmail, MySpace, Flickr, Yahoo... Where does one draw the line - is Facebook invincible?

I believe that more people care about privacy than they themselves realise. It's only a question of how much it'll take for patience to be tested. Keep in mind that easy-technology (the iPhone) has only been around for hardly more than 10 years; a lot of "non-geeky" people are still learning the ropes of how to balance their digital and physical lives.

Also don't forget that this is only one piece of bad news that Facebook has had of late. We're still wondering how useful online advertising really is, and how often it's gamed by ad click-fraud, etc. Aside from that, I can't comment on where FB's share price might be at any future point from now; not that I should even care.

Edit: With reference to big companies and which ones can eventually fail, I recommend reading Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor".

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#317

Post by andrepd » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

salvar wrote: post #226

nukeop wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy, Facebook is in no way required or even useful to keep in touch with anyone.

Wait, if someone tells you they find Facebook useful to keep in touch with friends, you'd tell them they're wrong?

It's absolutely not the only way to do so, and it's a false dichotomy to say quit facebook == don't get in touch with your friends.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#318

Post by bunderbunder » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

alekratz wrote: post #274

jjuel wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean do we really think Facebook is the only company with data problems? Is switching to something different really going to make a difference? Deleting your Facebook won't get rid of your data. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, your ISP, your cell carrier all have so much data on you. At this point you are out there in someone's database somewhere. Unless you haven't been on the grid at all which clearly anyone on HN is…

It annoys me that you're getting downvoted with no replies. I completely agree with you. The only way to stop your data from being spread across the web is to never put it there in the first place . I feel like federated systems (Mastodon, Diaspora*, et al) will only make it more difficult to remove your data, because now it's spread across 100 individual servers in 100 individual countries with 100 individuals doing…

One thing I respect about Twitter, is that they spell this out fairly clearly in their privacy policy:

Twitter is primarily designed to help you share information with the world. Most of the information you provide us through Twitter is information you are asking us to make public. ... Twitter broadly and instantly disseminates your public information to a wide range of users, customers, and services, including search engines, developers, and publishers that integrate Twitter content into their services, and organizations such as universities, public health agencies, and market research firms that analyze the information for trends and insights. When you share information or content like photos, videos, and links via the Services, you should think carefully about what you are making public.

I could swear an earlier version even pointed out that tweets you delete are not gone, because, by the time you delete it, it's already been permanently archived by a zillion third parties. I can't find anything about that in the current version, though.

I suppose Twitter's in an easier spot here, though. Like they say, Twitter's for talking to the whole world. Whereas, when people use Facebook, they typically use it to communicate with a more intimate circle.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#319

Post by cix_pkez » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

wpasc wrote: post #285

First, I think what happened with Facebook/Cambridge Analytica is appalling. With that said, I think this article is silly and emblematic of poor technology coverage in the media. I think it would be awesome if users really did delete their facebook accounts if they thought these actions crossed some line. But the article cites ~50,000 #deletefacebook mentions. Come on, 50k hashtag shares is evidence of "Users Abando…

Really though. This is what gets people to leave? Doubtful until I see proof. It's not like this "scandal" is out of character of other criticisms that have been very publicly declared against Facebook for years.

Re: Users Abandon Facebook After Cambridge Analytica Findings

#320

Post by coatmatter » Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #279

This will fade away. Facebook will thrive. (Disclaimer: I closed my FB account 4 years ago). The majority of people behave by classical Pavlovian conditioning: they'll get addicted for what gives them immediate pleasure even if it brings them pain in the long run. That's why we have so much obesity, tobacco, cocaine and opioids. This is why FB will keep thriving.

Supposing you're right, what is Facebook so good at that MySpace couldn't manage to do? What really is their "moat" that no one else can touch?

Interesting that you mention obesity, tobacco, cocaine and opiods because not all of those problems are inevitable for all societies. Personally, I think the two most misused technologies from last century is the car (invented late 19th century, but mostly innovated on in the 20th), and television. We've been here before, and the problems can be fixed so long as the answer isn't "more technology".

As for cigarettes, Australia has led the world in curbing smoking rates through a number of "socialist" measures. I don't know enough about the other two but I don't think it's as bad as in America.