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Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

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Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#841
post #746

Pathetic and sad performance by the vehicle and "safety" driver. The woman does not "appear out of nowhere", she was in the roadway for some time. The woman was not wearing all black, had red hair, and her shoes were reflective. Even if we are to believe that their camera is this crappy, they still have the lidar, and it appears brakes were not applied. Even 500ms of braking * 0.8g = 9mph. That might have saved her l…

What I don't understand is why the pedestrian didn't see or hear the car. She seems totally oblivious. Surely she would have seen the headlights. It is possible she had some sensory impairment, either visual or auditory.

This happens all the time at night where I live. People cross the road and you don't see them until you're quite close.

Cars are highly visible to pedestrians (due to headlights). I think pedestrians assume that they themselves are equally as visible to the car driver too - "I can see them, so they must be able to see me." is the subconscious line of thought I think.

Often though pedestrians get "lost" in the lights of oncoming vehicles or the brake lights of cars ahead, or are just in your blind spots.

The other thing is, I've noticed that people who have never learnt to drive often don't really appreciate how cars act and are not very good at estimating the distances involved. You've probably noticed this when crossing streets - some people take some eye-raising risks when crossing the road while others wait ... guess which ones are the drivers who are experienced with how cars/drivers act!

My guess here is the poor woman was stationary in the median thinking "Should I cross?" as the car was approaching. She probably then decided she had time to make it across before the Uber car got there so started to cross the street, perhaps assuming the vehicle was further away than it was, or would slow down since the "driver" would see her. We've all done this I am sure ... sometimes with time to spare, sometimes cutting it a bit close.

Perhaps if this was what happened, the Uber car "saw" her stationary in the median and disregarded her as a stationary road-side object and carried on until it was too late. IIRC these systems need to disregard static objects at the side of the road (e.g. signs, trees etc) otherwise they'd be slamming the brakes on all the time. Perhaps the initial movement she made into the road was disregarded as "sensor noise" (e.g. you can see objects "jumping around" a bit in this video from Uber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkkhlxYNwE) from what it thought was a static object, but that would not explain the apparent total non-reaction from the vehicle when she was clearly in the path.

I've driven a XC90 a few times - it has auto-lane keeping when using cruise control on the highway. Perhaps that was what was driving, not the Uber system.

Tragic stuff regardless of what happened.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#842
post #818

Someone on Reddit posted a comparison of the same spot at night but with a good camera: https://m.imgur.com/a/PM7uu from a video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOVxSCG8u0 That paints the whole accident in a very different light from the video from Twitter. Would any human not notice someone crossing in the good camera screenshot?

Wow, this really paints a different picture. If Uber cars have video quality like the one in the Tweet they should not be on public roads at all.

Edit: I'm not asserting that this is the only video that car "sees", but if it's not, it seems a bit disingenuous for Uber to share only this crappy low quality video with the police.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#843
I'd be really interested to know if there have been any 'close calls' before now, where a similar malfunction occurred, but the human driver caught it in time and manually hit the brakes. Not that I blame this driver; I just think that any incident where the human driver had to take control to avoid an accident is really just as bad as this.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#844
post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car didn't slow down even after it hit her, I think there was a different problem.

Well... after the car hit her there's no obstacle anymore. If there is no provision to detect an accident and then cancel the route to drive it's natural that the car doesn't stop, since the obstacle is now behind it. It's a computer with wheels.

Just add a cowcatcher to the front, right? No biggie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_(locomotive)

(closed captions: that was sarcasm. When colliding with anything, the correct response is not "just keep on driving"; and especially not when you've just hit a person)

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#845
post #27

This seems like a simple case. I would have expected the driver assist in my 2017 Subaru to have reacted to something in the road. I'm surprised that the much more sophisticated self driving system did not.

I can't count the number of commercials I've seen for Fords and Nissans and Subarus and every kind of modern car that has this exact feature, and this is exactly how the advertising plays out. Someone sprints in front of the car, the car stops automatically, everyone is safe, pedestrian continues with their life. I've never used it in real life, but I assume it works how the ads show it. If Uber can't match a $25,000…

"Waterproof* (only works with dry water)"

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#846
post #27

This seems like a simple case. I would have expected the driver assist in my 2017 Subaru to have reacted to something in the road. I'm surprised that the much more sophisticated self driving system did not.

I wonder if this was affected by the fact that the pedestrian was in another lane up until the very last second. Perhaps the car detected the pedestrian but failed to consider it an obstacle since it wasn't in its direct path. It could be unexpectedly difficult to account for pedestrian crossing speed if it caused automated cars to stop when a car in the next lane happened to "wobble" towards the automated car's lane…

If the car cannot predict "there's something in the next lane, could be in mine the next moment, better slow down just a bit", it has absolutely NO BUSINESS AT ALL driving around on public roads. At each and every occasion that I drove in a city, I have needed to take at least one such minor evasive maneuver due to someone suddenly getting into my lane, be it a car, a bike or a pedestrian. This is not even driving 101; if the car is unable to handle that, it is quite literally unfit for the road.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#847
post #842
post #818

Someone on Reddit posted a comparison of the same spot at night but with a good camera: https://m.imgur.com/a/PM7uu from a video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOVxSCG8u0 That paints the whole accident in a very different light from the video from Twitter. Would any human not notice someone crossing in the good camera screenshot?

Wow, this really paints a different picture. If Uber cars have video quality like the one in the Tweet they should not be on public roads at all. Edit: I'm not asserting that this is the only video that car "sees", but if it's not, it seems a bit disingenuous for Uber to share only this crappy low quality video with the police.

So we have no idea if it's just a crappy dashcam or it has to do with the compression algo that twitter applies to videos. Note the video the imgur screenshot is taken from a vid uploaded to youtube.

Also, the dashcam probably isn't what the car uses to "see", that would be beyond disqualifying.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#848
post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is why the pedestrian didn't see or hear the car. She seems totally oblivious. Surely she would have seen the headlights. It is possible she had some sensory impairment, either visual or auditory.

This happens all the time at night where I live. People cross the road and you don't see them until you're quite close. Cars are highly visible to pedestrians (due to headlights). I think pedestrians assume that they themselves are equally as visible to the car driver too - "I can see them, so they must be able to see me." is the subconscious line of thought I think. Often though pedestrians get "lost" in the lights…

I think your guess is dead on - it's what I had imagined the scenario was before I saw the video. I see this all the time, and the social contract between car and pedestrian is the car slows. Heck even half the time people do this they don't even look at the car - it's quite crazy - I never do that mostly because I make the assumption that I will be the unlucky shit that was hit when someone decided to bite down on a messy Carls Jr burger.

Regardless of how I do this, it's a pretty accepted contract and definitely still piles the fault on the SDV in my opinion.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#849
post #818

Someone on Reddit posted a comparison of the same spot at night but with a good camera: https://m.imgur.com/a/PM7uu from a video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOVxSCG8u0 That paints the whole accident in a very different light from the video from Twitter. Would any human not notice someone crossing in the good camera screenshot?

Yep, also this HDR image of the scene at night: https://imgur.com/gallery/XQrAB

Really hope the cops didn't just look at the low-dynamic range dashcam video and decide it's case-closed here. I would not want one of these Uber cars on the streets with me.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#850
post #25

How did LIDAR and IR not catch that? That seems like a pretty serious problem. It's clear from the video that a human driver actually would've had more trouble since the pedestrian showed up in the field of view right before the collision, yet that's in the visible spectrum. When I argue for automated driving (as a casual observer), I tell people about exactly this sort of stuff (a computer can look in 20 places at t…

I'd like to see an Uber SDV drive on Waymo's test tracks (where they have the employees pop all the shit at it). And just see what it does. I'm guessing it will be ridiculous and nightmarish.
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