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Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

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Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#621
post #584

This was the original story: "After the Uber collision, the car continued traveling at 38 miles per hour, according to the Tempe police chief" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-21/for-self-... In other words, the car _never_ detected the pedistrian and never slowed down on its own. This has nothing to do with _when_ it saw her. It clearly didn't, yet both camera and LIDAR should have been able to.

I feel bad for Waymo and all the guys taking the necessary safety precautions. This is going to set the industry back quite a bit. Thanks Uber, and RIP Elaine.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#622

Timeline: 00:03 - The feet of the pedestrian are visible 00:04 - The entire body of the pedestrian is visible 00:05 - Collision occurs If we assume that the computer only had this video as input, then the computer only had 2 seconds to avoid the collision. That would be unavoidable for the computer. But the fact that there was no sign of slowing down or braking in these 2 seconds is pretty alarming. But it sounds unl…

> the computer only had 2 seconds to avoid the collision. That would be unavoidable for the computer.

At the time of the accident, the car was traveling about 40mph. A Volvo XC90 is capable of braking from 60mph to zero in about 2 seconds.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2016-range-rover-sport-fa...

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It does NOT show what the LIDAR sees. 2) They should be using a dark adapted / night vision camera and probably are, the video feed presented is just that, the best one that "presents". 3) They should be using thermal infrared to spot living things 4) They were severely over driving their headlights if what we are seeing is "reality" as seen by the onboard computer. I want to know how much access to the hardware U…

> 3) They should be using thermal infrared to spot living things To my knowledge the fast frame rate (>9 Hz) thermal sensors are still ITAR-restricted, seriously limiting their application in autonomous vehicles among the other things.

US manufacturers are allowed to sell 30Hz+ products domestically. Not sure what EU (FR/DE) and Israeli manufacturers can sell.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#625
post #74

Direct link: https://twitter.com/TempePolice/status/976585098542833664 The interior view tells you everything you need to know about why anything except perfection in self driving cars will lead to more accidents. The driver specially selected and trained for exactly this job, does not look at the road! If someone specially trained for that won't do it, the general public certainly will not. Also, in the video you ca…

> Also, in the video you can not see the bicycle till it's almost too late. But I have better night vision than this camera, I feel as a human I would have seen the bike. (For example the sides are pitch black in the video, but in similar lighting I can see stuff to the side.)

While I'm happy for you, there are a lot of human drivers who don't have good night vision, have poor reaction time due to sleep deprivation, etc., etc., and get into accidents like this all the damn time. Is it a bad idea to have self-driving cars that are about as safe as the 10th percentile human driver? If the 10th percentile human driver would have hit this person, too, then we either need to keep these self-driving Ubers on the road, or revoke 10% of drivers licenses.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police department released the video, not Uber.

Mm, fair enough, that's my inner conspiracy theorist happening :b (Every part of the US government is obviously in cahoots with Uber as part of a complex scheme to take over the world, right?). Okay, probably not intentional on their part, but I think it's really disappointing that this is the video they had to share. The video itself is manipulative, and surely they would realize that. It provides some context, but…

No conspiracy needed. AZ wants to appear friendly to self driving car companies (e.g. they already don't regulate them as hard as CA.). A single undesirable being taken out isn't gonna change that.

Plus it's not like AZ has a long history of pedestrian friendliness anyway. It's practically engineered to harm them, with 2mi between crosswalks

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#627

As presented, this looks like a pretty classic "overdriving your headlights" situation. Even though they're made of retroreflective material, only two lane divider dashes at a time can be seen in the video, indicating something like 50 feet of visibility. Stopping from 38 mph takes 70+ feet from the time the brakes are applied (and human reaction time adds quite a bit more). Things (people, animals, stopped cars, roa…

I think you are missing a key point here. Have you ever been on a street with streetlights and had difficulty seeing past two lane divider dashes? The point is that the camera footage is vastly under-indicating the amount of distance a human eye would have been able to see.

Furthermore, if there are street lights, and you go through an unlit area, you should be able to detect the presence of an obstacle because it will be obscuring the view of the road ahead.

Uber's technology clearly sucks, to the extent that I doubt they are even using Lidar. However, the woman driving the vehicle should be arrested for not being aware. If she had been looking at the road for more than a small fraction of the time she surely would have seen the person on the road.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#628
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear from the video that a human driver actually would've had more trouble since the pedestrian showed up in the field of view right before the collision, yet that's in the visible spectrum. That's not at all clear to me. I don't know too much about cameras, but it looks to me like the camera is making the scene appear much darker than it actually is. In the video, you can see many street lights projecting down…

The whole reason many people on here have been advocating for self driving cars is that they can see obstructions more or less perfectly in the dark with LIDAR. I am much more interested in what that sensor said. I'm reluctant to infer exactly what a human eye would have seen in that situation. I have absolutely driven down streets in suburbia where the gap between street lights was large enough to make them quite da…

A person with common sense and a developed understanding of the situation would drive more slowly in situations like this. The law says that you don't drive faster than you can see.

A similar thing (no fatalities, just a shopping cart pushed by homeless people) happened to me. Ever since then, I have learned to be much more aware of situations like this (tunnel of light surrounded by darkness).

This just shows that Uber's tech is bad and that they let it on the road shows that their culture is still at least partly rotten.

I don't think Dara is the do gooder that some people are making him out to be. His primary motivation seems to be to usher Uber to an IPO. IMHO, if he actually had ethics, he would be front and center on this. Your company just killed someone. Where are you?

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#629

This exact situation happened to me on an unlit road 3 years ago. I swerved in the opposite lane and avoided the collision, without thinking. I was just lucky that my reflexes kicked in on time and that there was no opposing traffic. I had to stop and shake out all the adrenaline and rage after that. Real question, what would have happened to me, a human driver, if I had hit the person?

Police ruled it wouldn't be your fault.

This would be an incredible relief. This has been haunting me.

I didn’t have video however.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#630
A lot of people seem to mention how LiDAR should have seen her coming: Generally speaking, that's true. But it's difficult. In a single frame the system would hopefully detect something on the left of the lane, but wouldn't know what it is (if they use AI it's probably not trained for "person shoving bike packed with plastic bags").

If you have the object detection in place, you still need a trajectory for that object; if you don't know the exact angle you're looking at that object it's difficult. And moving at any speed there are plenty of things that could go wrong with the calculation, especially for slow objects. Also remember you're seeing a lot of oncoming traffic (for which you don't want to do an emergency brake) and cross traffic moving onto the road, letting you pass before they enter your lane (for which you might want to slow down a bit).

Maybe the bags reflected LiDAR light causing a wrong classification... Maybe their detection noise was too high and the quick fix was to turn down sensitivity.

Whatever happened exactly (and I hope we get more information), this is a terrible accident, because the object in question was not part of some controlled test, but a human being left dead.

Still, the technology is very promising, but companies should be more careful with testing; have drivers be aware of the road (is that IR light from the camera or a smartphone?), and maybe do more testing in controlled environments.

As a software engineer, I would only release an autonomous car into the wild after I trust it enough to walk into its path on a dark road (with enough space to brake; suicides can not be avoided)... I wonder if the Uber engineers would?

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