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Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

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Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#41

Post by _delirium »

gort wrote: post #24
chrismealy wrote: post #21

This is the same Peter Thiel that was recently complaining about women being able to vote. http://gawker.com/5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-could...

The offending statement is: "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron." In essence, this appears to be the claim that women are by and large not libertarian voters, and less so than men. This is a mere statement about the world…

Considering that the preceding sentence explains that the 1920s---before those two things happened---were the last decade in which one could be optimistic about politics, and then explains that those two things happening was the reason for the loss of optimism, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to interpret his statement as: the expansion of welfare and the granting of suffrage to women have turned out to be bad for America.

It's possible that he really thinks, instead: while those two things have rendered "capitalist democracy" an oxymoron, which I dislike, I nonetheless must agree that those two things happening was a good idea (for other reasons, presumably). But that certainly isn't the connotation of the words he chose. One could be forgiven for reading him to imply that he was at least not a big fan of either the expansion of welfare or the granting of women's suffrage.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#42

Post by chrismealy »

gort wrote: post #24
chrismealy wrote: post #21

This is the same Peter Thiel that was recently complaining about women being able to vote. http://gawker.com/5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-could...

The offending statement is: "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron." In essence, this appears to be the claim that women are by and large not libertarian voters, and less so than men. This is a mere statement about the world…

The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.

That is definitely complaining about women being able to vote.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#43

Post by akamaka »

Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #27

An awful piece. I repent that I read it. His introduction is good though. Grand claims, appealing to ancient lands, myths. However, the man seems to have no patience. Jumping from one idea to another like an adolescent trying to figure out what to do with himself. Grand claims, without explanation or elaboration, merely statements. We have lost the way of the ancients. By ancients we are probably led to believe the i…

Well, I'm glad that I forced you to read the article, because I really enjoyed reading your comments. :)

Although I agree with you, I did enjoy Theil's essay. I think it really captures and explains the desperate and almost suicidal mindset that is so common. You put it well. His is a dark world of little imagination and not much faith in humanity.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#44

Post by byrneseyeview »

nl wrote: post #36
byrneseyeview wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are anthropomorphizing "Capitalism," as a sort of aggregate of all capitalist behavior, but with a single goal. That's not accurate. Individuals certainly try to accumulate wealth, but the best way to make a lot of money is to find a better or cheaper way to do something--a side effect of which is the impoverishment of somebody else. Just look at, e.g., the way Sun nearly killed IBM in the late 80's and early 90'…

* Just look at, e.g., the way Sun nearly killed IBM in the late 80's and early 90's. Sun never made as much as IBM did, but the people who founded Sun made more than they otherwise would have.* I don't disagree with your general arguments, but this bit is factually wrong. IBM's problems in the late 80's and early 90's were to do with the rise of the PC industry, not the Unix workstation. Yes, IBM had a dysfunctional…

Thanks for the clarification. Are there any good sources (books, articles) on this period and what happened to IBM? I've read about it from IBM's point of view, but when your business is selling Big Iron, you figure you fail because of something Big Iron-related, not something external.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#45

Post by byrneseyeview »

jshen wrote: post #33
byrneseyeview wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are anthropomorphizing "Capitalism," as a sort of aggregate of all capitalist behavior, but with a single goal. That's not accurate. Individuals certainly try to accumulate wealth, but the best way to make a lot of money is to find a better or cheaper way to do something--a side effect of which is the impoverishment of somebody else. Just look at, e.g., the way Sun nearly killed IBM in the late 80's and early 90'…

"but the best way to make a lot of money is to find a better or cheaper way to do something" Nah, the best way is to prey on vice. Weight loss pills, get rich quick schemes, porn, 0 interest ARM loans, etc.

One would think so, but the Forbes 400 is not dominated by people who cater to vices. In fact, folks who bet against at least some of those (the 0% ARM loans) are well-represented among hedgies.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#46

Post by adamtj »

limist wrote: post #10

Interesting that this was published in January 2008, and likely written before that. Rightly or wrongly, economic globalization's image didn't end that year untarnished. The world's a really complex system, even limited to just the human-systems part of it, and the In particular, Thiel wrestles with the fairly old internal contradictions of capitalism that many other thinkers have, some much more in depth. To use one…

Capitalism doesn't have a purpose any more than, say, evolution. Capitalism is, perhaps, best thought of as a description of how the world works, in particular, how wealth is created. It has nothing to say about why wealth is created any more than evolution has something to say about our purpose for being here. Attributing purposes to properties of the universe is the domain of religion. Thus, I think it would be safe to say that everybody is a capitalist; some are also beggars or thieves. To call Thiel a "capitalist/investor" says more about you than him. You seem to be pushing your particular religion and are accusing him of being an atheist who could see the truth, but for the mote in his eye.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#47

Post by jshen »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #45
jshen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but the best way to make a lot of money is to find a better or cheaper way to do something" Nah, the best way is to prey on vice. Weight loss pills, get rich quick schemes, porn, 0 interest ARM loans, etc.

One would think so, but the Forbes 400 is not dominated by people who cater to vices. In fact, folks who bet against at least some of those (the 0% ARM loans) are well-represented among hedgies.

when he said, "the best way to make a lot of money", I was thinking a few million and that by best he meant easiest. It surely is easier to get rich tacking advantage of someone than trying to start the next microsoft.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#48

Post by ziweb »

I just posted my thoughts on it here. http://bit.ly/b7tGcm I'd post it as a comment but it's too long.

He's good on the financial advice but bad on everything else. Why would you promote Defense technology if you think the biggest risk in the future is war? Shouldn't you be promoting peace?

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#49

Post by lotharbot »

ziweb wrote: post #48

I just posted my thoughts on it here. http://bit.ly/b7tGcm I'd post it as a comment but it's too long. He's good on the financial advice but bad on everything else. Why would you promote Defense technology if you think the biggest risk in the future is war? Shouldn't you be promoting peace?

1) That's not too long for a comment. This isn't twitter; we're used to comments that are several paragraphs long.

2) If you do post a link to something, use the full link. Link shorteners like bit.ly are frowned upon at HN. This isn't twitter; characters are not at a premium, and many of us prefer to see the real destination of the link.

Re: Peter Thiel: There Are No Good Bets Against Globalization

#50

Post by ziweb »

lotharbot wrote: post #49
ziweb wrote: post #48

I just posted my thoughts on it here. http://bit.ly/b7tGcm I'd post it as a comment but it's too long. He's good on the financial advice but bad on everything else. Why would you promote Defense technology if you think the biggest risk in the future is war? Shouldn't you be promoting peace?

1) That's not too long for a comment. This isn't twitter; we're used to comments that are several paragraphs long. 2) If you do post a link to something, use the full link. Link shorteners like bit.ly are frowned upon at HN. This isn't twitter; characters are not at a premium, and many of us prefer to see the real destination of the link.

Thanks. I'm new here and I'm mostly used to the derp derp stuff, so your comment was helpful. I'm assuming there is no way to embed html here?
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