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Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

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Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#491
Based on the video, it took about 1.5 seconds from when the pedestrian came into view till the vehicle collided with them.

At 38 mph, a car is traveling about 56 feet/second. That means that the car traveled about 84 feet in that timeframe. VOL (Visual Aim on Left) headlamps are supposed to be aimed 2.1 inches below headlamp level at a distance of 25 feet [1]. If the headlamps on the vehicle were about 2 feet off the ground, then they should have been able to light up the roadway about 286 feet ahead.

Had the headlamps been aimed properly, then the driver could have seen the pedestrian about 5 seconds in advance. That would have given the driver about 1 second to react and 4 more seconds to slow down or change direction to avoid the collision.

[1] http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#492
This exact situation happened to me on an unlit road 3 years ago. I swerved in the opposite lane and avoided the collision, without thinking. I was just lucky that my reflexes kicked in on time and that there was no opposing traffic.

I had to stop and shake out all the adrenaline and rage after that.

Real question, what would have happened to me, a human driver, if I had hit the person?

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#493
Obviously a "hello, world" failure of self-driving.

I wouldn't blame a human for not seeing that person, but better should be expected of the tech.

However:

* there doesn't appear to be a single reflective device on the bike. For instance, the usual spoke-mounted reflectors that are stock equipment on even low-end bikes do not seem to be there.

* the woman seems completely oblivious to the car's approach. She doesn't react at all but keeps casually walking with the bike right until the moment of impact. She mustn't be looking in the direction of traffic at all and is mowed down completely by surprise, like someone sucker-punched in a bar. (Was this someone with disabilities? Visual or hearing impairment? Developmental?)

* I think here is the road where this took place: https://www.google.co.in/maps/@33.4351488,-111.9415554,3a,60... The scene of the accident is a little bit forward of here. Utterly not a place to be crossing at night in a way that is completely oblivious to the presence of vehicles and far away from the intersection. Note that this is a one-way double lane; there is only one direction in which to look out for cars.

This kind of badly behaved, suicidal pedestrian is a challenge to drivers even in daylight. However, you would expect precisely this sort of situation to be among the highest priority test cases for self-driving tech.

BTW: here is a shot of a sign forbidding pedestrians from crossing at almost that exact spot: https://www.google.co.in/maps/@33.4362927,-111.9424451,3a,15... She wouldn't have seen that one because she probably crossed the other lane already; she's coming from the median. How did this person live to 49?

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#494
post #25

How did LIDAR and IR not catch that? That seems like a pretty serious problem. It's clear from the video that a human driver actually would've had more trouble since the pedestrian showed up in the field of view right before the collision, yet that's in the visible spectrum. When I argue for automated driving (as a casual observer), I tell people about exactly this sort of stuff (a computer can look in 20 places at t…

The code isn’t perfect obviously. The software is probably programmed to avoid anything in the opposite lane.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#495
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. That person + bike would have been completely trivial to detect with the LIDAR those cars have mounted on top.

The comparison should be against humans. It is humans that autonomous vehicles are being compared against. Because the alternative to an AV is a human. So the only thing at all that matters is "is this better or worse than a human".

There are two explanations for the video published:

1. They DO have cameras onboard with the exposure settings necessary to see the woman in the video, and have not released the video because it makes for bad PR.

2. They DO NOT have such cameras, in which case they should have their self-driving permit revoked because this failure mode is completely predictable to anybody working in this space. And anyway their LIDAR should've detected the person.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#496
post #25

How did LIDAR and IR not catch that? That seems like a pretty serious problem. It's clear from the video that a human driver actually would've had more trouble since the pedestrian showed up in the field of view right before the collision, yet that's in the visible spectrum. When I argue for automated driving (as a casual observer), I tell people about exactly this sort of stuff (a computer can look in 20 places at t…

How did LIDAR and IR (?) not catch that? That seems like a pretty serious problem.

Something is badly wrong there. That should have been detected by LIDAR, radar, and vision. Yes, they need a wide dynamic range camera for night driving, but such things exist.[1][2] They're available as low-end dashcams; it's not expensive military night vision technology.

Radar should pick up a bicycle at that range. The old Eaton VORAD from about 2000 couldn't, but there's been progress since then.

LIDAR has its limitations; some materials, including the charcoal black fabric used on some desk chairs, are almost nonreflective to LIDAR. But blue jeans, red bike, bare head? Expect solid returns from all of those.

The video shows no indication of braking in advance of the collision. That's very bad. There simply is no excuse for this situation not being handled. The NTSB is looking into this, and they should. I hope the NTSB is able to pry detailed technical data out of Uber and explain exactly what happened. In the first Tesla fatal crash, they didn't get deeply into the software and hardware, because it was clear that the system was behaving as designed, unable to detect a solid tractor trailer crossing in front of the Tesla. The result of that investigation was that Tesla had to get serious about detecting driver inattention, like all the other carmakers with lane keeping and autobrake do.

This time it's a level 4 vehicle, which is supposed to be able to detect any road hazard. The NTSB has the job of figuring out what went wrong, in detail, the way they do for air crashes.

Again, there is no excuse for this.

[1] https://youtu.be/gWqzJF9tOhw?t=211 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as12rjzCQnY

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#497
post #435

I do wonder if perhaps Uber made the video darker before releasing. Or used a camera that is not the main sensing camera. Because I would hope the cars are smart enough to increase ISO to get more detail at night time.

> I do wonder if perhaps Uber made the video darker before releasing This video was released by the police department. Are you suggesting someone from Uber drove down to the scene at 10pm, somehow managed to grab the SD card from the dashcam with all the police there, ran back to their car, uploaded it to their laptop, fired up Premiere, edited the brightness, downloaded the modified video back into the SD, ran back…

Alternatively, you're assuming the police on the scene knew how to exract the video from the car without Uber's help?

Edit to add: I don't really think they intentionally darken the image, but this probably isn't even the camera the car runs off of.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#498
The way I see it is that this fatality was a calculated risk for Uber. Uber realizes how much Waymo is ahead of them and decides to drop too many safety restraints in development of the self-driving technology.

Any safety regulations based on this fatality are going to hit Waymo just as much as Uber, but also slow Waymo down and give Uber time to catch up. Any financial fine would be tiny comparing to total money invested in self driving technology.

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#499

I do wonder if perhaps Uber made the video darker before releasing. Or used a camera that is not the main sensing camera. Because I would hope the cars are smart enough to increase ISO to get more detail at night time.

The cars don't have to increase ISO to get detail, that's for human eyes. Increasing ISO only works because we can't see details in shadows, but computers don't have that limitation. A neural network wouldn't have to add 100 to each pixel to make out detail, like a human would.

Sorry, in short you're wrong, yes they do. I'm on my phone so I will be brief.

The ISO determines the sensitivity of the sensor in the camera to the photons hitting each bucket in the "sensor array". This sensitivity combined with frequency of the photon hits determines the data that makes up the actual image. If you could theoretically dump the RAW data from an image recorded for a different ISO for the same image, it would be different for each one.

You can't "boost" an image's ISO post-capture, because the sensor data is already captured. What you can do is increase the values of those pixels that are appreciably close to buy not equal to zero, but for which data exists, giving the impression of pulling out data from the shadows, but the limitations/complexities are too much to go into here. When you do so in practice, you do not have as much relative detail in those extremes.

What we interpret as "noise", typically in high ISO low light photography, is a real thing that the computer cannot perfectly compensate for, because it's a fundamental property of both the hardware, but more importantly, of background light/radiation and the probability/quantum nature of light...

Re: Tempe Police Release Video of Uber Accident

#500

Pathetic and sad performance by the vehicle and "safety" driver. The woman does not "appear out of nowhere", she was in the roadway for some time. The woman was not wearing all black, had red hair, and her shoes were reflective. Even if we are to believe that their camera is this crappy, they still have the lidar, and it appears brakes were not applied. Even 500ms of braking * 0.8g = 9mph. That might have saved her l…

clear weather. flat road with no obstacles. looks like good road conditions. no other cars visible. i am no computer vision expert but this really looks like a common use case for the software to be able to handle
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