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The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

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Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#51

I have an honest question, what is the end game for Theranos employees. My understanding is the company is a complete fraud but yet if I go on linkedin they still have 200+ employees working there: https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/people/?facetCurrent... are all of these people going to be fired in the coming months or do investors think this is still a good idea but Holmes isnt going to be apart of it ?

I think at this point, investors are trying to salvage what ever tech it has, and sell the company.

No clue why employees are sticking around, maybe they’re currently looking for another job and it’s a slow drop to zero.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is everything wrong with American media in one article 100% agree. What she should have done was not cancel the feature, but write what actually happened--right after it happened, not now, when Theranos has already been outed as a fraud and she's just another one jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?* You essentially can't publish it if it a. Falls too far outside what the public will readily believe and b. Is not adequately backed up with verifiable hard facts. Speculation that they intentionally pulled the fire alarm would have been considered mudslinging and yellow journalism at the time the research was done. It's print-worthy now because we now know that Theranos d…

As a side note, I've started seeing the term "Overton window" more often. It's a bit shocking because I knew Joe Overton (his untimely death was a gigantic loss). It's kinda cool to see it used in general discourse now.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#53

I have an honest question, what is the end game for Theranos employees. My understanding is the company is a complete fraud but yet if I go on linkedin they still have 200+ employees working there: https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/people/?facetCurrent... are all of these people going to be fired in the coming months or do investors think this is still a good idea but Holmes isnt going to be apart of it ?

I think at this point, investors are trying to salvage what ever tech it has, and sell the company. No clue why employees are sticking around, maybe they’re currently looking for another job and it’s a slow drop to zero.

A mortgage is a mortgage, and a pay check is a pay check.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?* You essentially can't publish it if it a. Falls too far outside what the public will readily believe and b. Is not adequately backed up with verifiable hard facts. Speculation that they intentionally pulled the fire alarm would have been considered mudslinging and yellow journalism at the time the research was done. It's print-worthy now because we now know that Theranos d…

As a side note, I've started seeing the term "Overton window" more often. It's a bit shocking because I knew Joe Overton (his untimely death was a gigantic loss). It's kinda cool to see it used in general discourse now.

[deleted]

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#56
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is everything wrong with American media in one article 100% agree. What she should have done was not cancel the feature, but write what actually happened--right after it happened, not now, when Theranos has already been outed as a fraud and she's just another one jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?* You essentially can't publish it if it a. Falls too far outside what the public will readily believe and b. Is not adequately backed up with verifiable hard facts. Speculation that they intentionally pulled the fire alarm would have been considered mudslinging and yellow journalism at the time the research was done. It's print-worthy now because we now know that Theranos d…

I would hope a story in this vein would fall much more under b.

As you say, at that point, it would have just been mudslinging with no factual basis. In retrospect, an editor should possibly have put the resources into an investigative story--but who knows if the fact would actually have come out much earlier than they actually did. And there are lots of potential stories about things that smell wrong, some of which amount to something significant and many that don't--or at least stay under every radar.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#57
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is everything wrong with American media in one article 100% agree. What she should have done was not cancel the feature, but write what actually happened--right after it happened, not now, when Theranos has already been outed as a fraud and she's just another one jumping on the bandwagon.

Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?* You essentially can't publish it if it a. Falls too far outside what the public will readily believe and b. Is not adequately backed up with verifiable hard facts. Speculation that they intentionally pulled the fire alarm would have been considered mudslinging and yellow journalism at the time the research was done. It's print-worthy now because we now know that Theranos d…

> Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?*

Sure, you're just describing another symptom of the same disease.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have heard of the Overton Window?* You essentially can't publish it if it a. Falls too far outside what the public will readily believe and b. Is not adequately backed up with verifiable hard facts. Speculation that they intentionally pulled the fire alarm would have been considered mudslinging and yellow journalism at the time the research was done. It's print-worthy now because we now know that Theranos d…

I would hope a story in this vein would fall much more under b. As you say, at that point, it would have just been mudslinging with no factual basis. In retrospect, an editor should possibly have put the resources into an investigative story--but who knows if the fact would actually have come out much earlier than they actually did. And there are lots of potential stories about things that smell wrong, some of which…

> In retrospect, an editor should possibly have put the resources into an investigative story

Yes.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#59
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Theranos were absolutely doing finger-prick tests Yes--much, much less often than their PR led people to expect. Also, they were actually getting much less information from a single finger prick than their PR was claiming. That's why they were having to do full venipuncture blood draws for tests that their PR led many people to believe would only require a finger prick. > The fact that the journalist didn't see any…

I said it may well be cause to go back, not it /is/ cause to go back. I've read a couple of articles just today that don't seem to check out in some minor way. I can think of one widely-reported story off the top of my head that appears to be grossly misrepresentative of fact if not false. An investigative journalist probably has dozens. Choices need to be made. The fact that this wasn't pursued for months strongly s…

> I can think of one widely-reported story off the top of my head that appears to be grossly misrepresentative of fact if not false. An investigative journalist probably has dozens. Choices need to be made.

I'm not sure I understand. "Choices need to be made" about what? About which grossly misrepresentative stories to actually publish? Or about which ones to check out first, as opposed to just publishing?

In short, what you're describing just looks like more symptoms of the same underlying disease.

Re: The Tale of Theranos and the Mysterious Fire Alarm

#60
post #8

I started to write a thoughtful and balanced analysis of this article...but then I stopped myself. The reason I stopped myself is that I thought about all the journalists like this lady who played the same game with Theranos and continue to play similar games with all of the rotten corporate and government entities in the county. Then I started getting genuinely pissed off! What. the. f*ck did I just read? She openly…

> She came to the story with a predetermined framing of the story.

In that it was a simple report on the patient experience, rather than being a deep investigative piece? That doesn't seem egregious or necessarily biased in a particular direction (it could either be a positive or negative experience), and there is some push back against Theranos guiding the piece ("wouldn’t I just rather get a finger prick myself and report on the experience, as so many other journalists had agreed to do? [/] I said no.")

> She allowed herself to be bribed with the “treat” of talking to Elizabeth Holmes

How? She rejects the initial condition that Theranos try to impose (not talking to other sources), and the condition in the threat was something the journalist had already indicated was necessary (talking to an actual patient getting the finger prick) nor did she change course at that point in order to secure the interview with Holmes.

> She sat on the story

What story? "I tried to do an interview but there was a fire alarm" -- that's basically all there is without significantly more digging, which she may not have the time/resources/connections/organisational support to undertake. Even if you publish the angle that not many people seemed to be getting the finger prick test, Theranos will just rebut it with the "significantly more than 50 percent of the tests are done with a finger prick" line and that the journalist did not see a representative sample.

> She waited until well after the tide of public opinion had turned against Theranos to capitalize on the work of others who actually did the hard journalism to get clicks.

I agree that it seems to be something of a bandwagon, and almost to get some credit after the fact, and that framing it as "I always knew something was wrong" paints the decisions made at the time in a poor light. However, given what was known at the time, I don't think any outrageous decisions were made, particularly as this was written with the benefit of hindsight so not as many red flags may have been raised at the time. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that journalists do a deep dive on every company they cover, especially when writing a relatively simple piece. Would there have been merit in publishing the piece? Certainly, especially given what we now know, but I can also see how you would conclude there is nothing important/interesting you can conclusively say based on those events.

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