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Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

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281–290 of 583 posts

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#281
post #39

The trusting developers not to sell any data but putting zero safeguards in place to prevent this and extremely punitive repercussions despite being repeatedly told by the public, media, and even high level employees tells me Facebook can't plead ignorance to this and they not only knew this was happening, but they probably intended for it to happen. They knew it was illegal but put all the incentives for companies n…

So FB opened up their platform to 3rd party Devs in 2007 and this CA incident happened in 2013. FB changed their policy of not allowing broad data access to these Devs in 2014. So my question is: Why they admit that they'd audit the pre-2014 apps now when NYT and Guardian/Observer broke the news? And what policy is in place now that makes sure that these 3rd party Devs won't sell whatever info they do collect as per…

Why they admit that they'd audit the pre-2014 apps now when NYT and Guardian/Observer broke the news?

I don't know, they should have done it when Obama committed even worse Facebook privacy violations back in 2008/2012. I guess when you have Chris Hughes working for your campaign, it's easier to keep things under wraps and spin what does become public as a positive. It was only after Trump won that this kind of use of the data became an issue for the press. The Obama-era articles on this subject actually celebrated the use of these techniques almost universally.

And what policy is in place now that makes sure that these 3rd party Devs won't sell whatever info they do collect as per post-2014 policy?

You're not understanding what he said. The Facebook platform was completely neutered in 2014. They broke my (and most other developers') apps by disabling access to almost any friend information, even things as mundane as public profile pictures. In fact, these days, more information can be gleaned by scraping publicly available data from Facebook than can be obtained through the API. The post-2014 policy has zero chance of any friend data being sold/abused/whatever, because apps simply don't have access to the data anymore.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#283

Anyone else remember Beacon? This was how FB has always designed to work from the beginning. They've just been toying with the PR ways to say it to make people accept it without thinking. The election woke people up. I found this from 2011 when they shut it down as a "mistake." ( https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2011/11/our-commitment-to-the-f... ). Unfortunately, it looks like they removed the launch release - but it wo…

Yes! Wow, that was a long time ago. FWIW, it looks like Archive.org has a copy of the press release:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080214193303/http://www.facebo...

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#285
post #84

1000 word statement. Number of times the word "advertising" was mentioned: 0 Facebook continues to pretend it's business model is unicorns and kittens, not selling user data for money.

It was standard crisis management PR sermon. "learn from this experience", "doesn't change what happened in the past. ", "responsibility", "going forward", "together". You find this same boilerplate from athletes who beat their wife, do drugs, or kill people.

Exactly this; no one is sorry, they're sorry they got caught after the fact. This is simply an attempt at ass covering and shifting blame onto Cambridge Analytica so users / investors / governments don't sue Facebook.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#286
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UI could be a web page, mobile app, etc just like FB.com. But to see any user data you would actually have to be authorized as that specific user. I.E. a developer could test their app by logging in with their own FB account and using their own data but would have no capability to look at the raw DB entries of other users. Or perhaps their could be a limited capability for developers to log in to their app as ano…

Hm, the catch here is something like this could happen: +--------------+ +----------+ +--------------+ | | | | | | | other server | | Server | | other server | | | | | | | +-------+------+ +----+-----+ +-------+------+ ^ | ^ | | | | http request | | containing user | | data for UI | http request made | rouge http request with a legit purpose | sending the user data say fetching assets v to some other server | +------…

1) agreed - for mobile apps to maintain some semblance of data sandboxing, this would require FB to work with Apple. I'm imagining some kind of new iOS "Secure API" where the return values from certain API calls are marked "tainted" and then Apple uses static binary analysis to reject apps that write the tainted data to non-whitelisted socket calls.

2) Developers simply wouldn't have a a choice in the matter - FB is so big that they can force the market in a certain direction if they want to.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#287
post #39

The trusting developers not to sell any data but putting zero safeguards in place to prevent this and extremely punitive repercussions despite being repeatedly told by the public, media, and even high level employees tells me Facebook can't plead ignorance to this and they not only knew this was happening, but they probably intended for it to happen. They knew it was illegal but put all the incentives for companies n…

> They knew it was illegal but put all the incentives for companies not to follow the rules. Offtopic but i cant help it. You get what you measure. Which is why economies that only measure profit optimize for nothing but profit. When a nationstate says "It's illegal to do X" but has mandatory accounting practices that do not measure X but only measure profit, we should not be surprised that companies like Facebook do…

Here is a one attempt at using environmental, social and governance (ESG) integration factors to create an index of companies that are measured beyond just the basic plain vanilla profitability/market cap metrics:

https://www.msci.com/esg-ratings

https://www.msci.com/research/esg-research

Recommended watching the following TED video to introduce the topic: https://www.ted.com/watch/ted-institute/ted-state-street/aud...

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#288
post #104

1000 word statement. Number of times the word "advertising" was mentioned: 0 Facebook continues to pretend it's business model is unicorns and kittens, not selling user data for money.

Facebook doesn't sell user data for money. It sells targeted advertising for money. There is a huge difference.

2018’s 3P data and tracking tech no longer needs to violate FB policy to do what was done in 2013.

FB provides a platform for ads, sure, but it can be used for way more than just ads.

3P tracking can infer who (even specifically) is viewing ads and it knows the social graph by other means. It can also do effective mass psychometric tests. A/B testing infrastructure can be used for more than just optimizing ads ... all of the psychometric dimensions tested by Kogan’s 2013 app can be expressed as embedded imagery and messaging in ads, and the same types of tests can operate at the same scale by integrating 3P data and tracking (some of which certainly originates from policy-compliant FB apps) which already knows the social graph beyond what FB will allow a single app or ad to draw.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#289
This is interesting:

> We will reduce the data you give an app when you sign in -- to only your name, profile photo, and email address.

What about localization info such as language?

Are all apps switching to 100% US English? Are they supposed to guess a users language from their name and email?

My guess (and this is just a guess) is that the users preferred language is already considered “public” on the graph so perhaps apps don’t need special permission to access it.

If that’s the case, this statement is doing a bit of misdirection by calling out name and profile photo, instead of saying “we will only give your email address plus other information we deem public”

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They knew it was illegal but put all the incentives for companies not to follow the rules. Offtopic but i cant help it. You get what you measure. Which is why economies that only measure profit optimize for nothing but profit. When a nationstate says "It's illegal to do X" but has mandatory accounting practices that do not measure X but only measure profit, we should not be surprised that companies like Facebook do…

> the GAAP has all but ensured that this happens. You want companies to have values? Then measure values! (alongside profit, not inspite of) How do you record company/moral values into Books of Accounts? How does one audit those morals? What category do you assign it under: Asset, Liability or Owners Equity? And moreover, what would happen if morals change and some are deemed obsolete? Also, if you start to measure c…

Yes we all know that. To even start thinking about how to quantify values — and if you follow macro like i do, you know a modern economist can probably quantify anything — first we must inject values into the conversation. Right now, the world doesn't have any values. Except profit, competition, winning, domination and control. It's not even efficient — it's a prisoner's dilemma stuck at backstab/backstab. How do you solve a prisoners dilemma? ... shared values! (“thou shalt not kill”)
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