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Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

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241–250 of 583 posts

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#241

The main problem is that users can't control their data. FB should: - Allow its users to delete their accounts as if they never existed - Show users which person and or service has accessed their data (also FB internally) - Use backend permission management instead of frontend permission management

I think the main problem is less that users can't control their data; it's that for most people, your data is already out of the box. So many developers downloaded all of this data using the Facebook Graph API prior to 2015 when it was locked down. And given that 8 million developers used the API, it's almost a guarantee that someone you don't trust has access to all your data.

When you allow apps to access all the information about people's friends as well, informed consent becomes impossible.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#242
Circa 2009 I was hired to build a Facebook graph app that did just this, only for dating profiles. Thankfully it was acquired and buried by the shady sociopaths who hired me to build it, before it ever saw the light of day.

However, there were many, many apps that also did the same. A number of dating apps, companies like Zynga, business networks like BranchOut etc. They were just inhaling data wholesale, especially Likes which were fully exposed to all friends in your graph.

I could totally see how you could use that data circa 2014 to build psych profiles and resell it for sophisticated targeting years later.

There is an enormous risk of companies who rose and fell during the Zynga era to have resold or improperly disposed of FB profile data during their final liquidation. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#243

"... we immediately banned Kogan's app from our platform, and demanded that Kogan and Cambridge Analytica formally certify that they had deleted all improperly acquired data. They provided these certifications." How is it at all possible to certify that data has been deleted and no copies were taken..?

I think it's the very fact that they cannot truly verify, which is why Facebook is so willing to go through the motions. In reality, they know many developers will not comply, but they can claim they did everything humanly possible before a grand jury.

It costs Facebook nothing to ask developers to sign a contract written on virtual paper, yet can be used as a defense to cover their butt further down the line.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#244
post #61
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels strange to those of us from technical spheres, but much of the world works without formal verification of facts. There are in theory severe penalties, both implicit and explicit, that ostensibly act as deterrent to bad actors. This is usually only noteworthy when it fails, but by and large it works. The friction involved if we did not generally accept someone's (signed, notarized, appropriately formalized)…

This predisposition to believe our fellow humans is actually hard-coded into our genes. This is one of the reasons it's so easy to spread fake news. The ability to lie to someone without direct consequences to yourself (because, for example, you are thousands of miles away) was not part of our ancestral environment, but it is part of our contemporary one, and some of us are exploiting this newly created ecological ni…

I'm going to have request a source here, because this doesn't make much sense. We've spent very nearly all of our evolutionary time pillaging, raping, and murdering each other - not exactly singing kumbaya. There's tribal instinctual stuff that would include 'in-group' trust, but that's something far and away from trusting a person because they're a person as you're implying.

'Fake news' takes advantage of something much more simple. People believe what they want to believe. In other words the people led on by fake news tend to already want to believe what the news is about. When we see something that confirms our biases, many of us don't question it. And this is made even worse since people tend to work as apologists for fake news from sources they like, so instead of being able to discuss the issue of fake news - it ends up dividing people into splits on the 'fake' topic at hand, which in contemporary times is most often political.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#245
post #116

The main problem is that users can't control their data. FB should: - Allow its users to delete their accounts as if they never existed - Show users which person and or service has accessed their data (also FB internally) - Use backend permission management instead of frontend permission management

How about additionally, 1) providing an "Advanced Feed" providing each user a log of every data field exfiltrated, date/time/who/IP addr,/ etc. 2) requiring every single advert and it's targeting parameters, that runs on the system to be made available in a fully searchable advert pool for anyone to search. This would allow people to see what is being targeted, journalists to figure out what targeting is happening (m…

What good would that do if you wanted to know what someone was doing with a profile they downloaded of you prior to 2015? FB says that any developer giving that data to another organization would violate its TOS, but given the sheer scale of apps that were on Facebook back then, it almost certainly happened many thousands of time.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#246

Zuckerberg's comments are clear and seemingly accurate as far as the publicly available information goes. The only problem is, they do nothing to address the real elephant question in the room. That question is - what is the state of political campaigns powered by the extremely detailed personal data Facebook holds? Democracy only works when everyone gets an equal vote. What are the consequences when special interest…

> Democracy only works when everyone gets an equal vote. What are the consequences when special interest groups, including from abroad, can pay to use the official Facebook APIs and craft targeted messages to shape the public opinion?

Democracy only works with an educated population. Regulating data might act as a short to medium term buffer against this issue; however, as we learn more about how our psychology works, the more often we'll be manipulated. Combined with the interesting argument that being politically uninformed could be rational:

> If the odds that your vote will be decisive are minuscule—Brennan writes that “you are more likely to win Powerball a few times in a row”—then learning about politics isn’t worth even a few minutes of your time. [1]

... we have an interesting problem on our hands. I personally believe that the long term solution is within education, but instead of teaching people "what to think," we ought to be teaching people "how to think". People typically learn naively about how to think: both how to emotionally cope with struggling and with parsing and understanding information. At the minimum I think schools ought to be teaching kids strategies for both arenas.

I personally really enjoy two approaches around "how to think.":

1. The now out of print "How to Develop Your Thinking Ability," is a super old, easy read loosely based on Korzybski's controversial "Science and Sanity." It taught me how to approach my perception as gambles (i.e. to avoid universal judgment). The principles, all often obvious, as I recall, are roughly:

a. Up to a point e.g. that person is annoying, up to a point.

b. To me. That movie is awesome to me.

c. As far as I know. Warren Buffet is 92 as far as I know.

d. Indexing by time: I like John at this point in time.

e. Indexing by place: I like John when we're at the club, but not when we're at the office.

f. Indexing by subindex: Instead of: Guy_1, Guy_2, Guy_3 are all scum, therefore all men are scum, we use indices to avoid generalization.

2. The Happiness Trap: enumerates Acceptance and committance therapy. ACT roughly uses a variety of defusing techniques, mindfulness, and values oriented behavior to help a person handle their thoughts in constructive manners.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-again...

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#247
post #193

Standard operating procedure for Facebook. Let violations go on unless and until seriously threatened by PR damage or legal action. Deny knowledge, claim "mistakes were made", claim "We're so sorry. We will make sure it can't happen again", repeat. Data exfiltrations of roughly this kind has been going on at least since 2009. Handled according to the formula above. I just posted links to two writeups from back then:…

By the way:

confounded's comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16641777

over in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16640437 ("Big Other: Surveillance Capitalism and Prospects of an Information Civilization") is well worth reading and keeping in mind in this context.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#248
I think Zuckerberg just doesn't get it (or is playing dumb).

The point is this - I don't and will never trust facebook as a company. There is no way to salvage that. Once you've established yourself as untrustworthy you can't talk your way out of it, because there in no reason to believe your excuses and trust there aren't omissions.

Consider the microphone accusation (and the legalese they used in their oddly specific denials), Zuckerberg's wish to run for president, the incredibly extensive profiles they construct on their users ("Is the kind of person to look at their phone in akward situations") without justifying it to the users, and now this.

It's way too late for people like me. I've deleted my facebook.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#249

Re: His first "fix": > First, we will investigate all apps that had access to large amounts of information before we changed our platform to dramatically reduce data access in 2014, and we will conduct a full audit of any app with suspicious activity. We will ban any developer from our platform that does not agree to a thorough audit. And if we find developers that misused personally identifiable information, we will…

It's almost certain that they do, and almost certain they'll never be able to validate that this data won't go to any actors that you would not like to have access to your information. For anything on your Facebook prior to 2015, the cat has already jumped out of the bag.

Re: Zuckerberg on Cambridge Analytica situation

#250
post #225

This is such a well crafted statement not from Zuck's heart but from a PR team that has been working over time. Shame on you FB and Zuck you Suck. If they are so honest or like to be honest going forward why can't they make it easy to see all my pics and posts that are public? Why can't they make it easy to see who can see what I posted? Which app or user is using my data. They have billions of dollars and can't impl…

A better question is, why aren't you using a decentralized, open-source alternative to Facebook today?

Because they are all awful, no one uses them, and they are ui clones with no features built by people that think the word decentralised is actually a selling point to the general public rather than having a single innovative thought about what social means and then using decentralisation as a tech solution.
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