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Guide to Slack import and export tools

get.slack.help

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Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#441

Post by bbarn »

mnm1 wrote: post #406
larrik wrote: post #2

Previously, you could only see employee DMs if you turned on Compliance Exports, at which point you could download all of them going forward . Now it sounds like everything you've ever written could be downloaded at any time without notice. So, all of those communications you had with co-workers based on the promise they would be private until you were notified future ones wouldn't be anymore? Now it's ALL available…

Why would you have such conversations or expectations when using company chat? That's unprofessional and, frankly, stupid because it puts one's job in danger (as could an in person conversion heard by the wrong people at work). If you want to talk in private, there's dozens of other chat programs out there you can run on your own devices.

You're missing the point. Slack was one of those programs until this retroactive privacy policy change.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#442

Post by plussed_reader »

peterkelly wrote: post #194
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

Where are you getting abuse of access from the prior comment?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#443

Post by ravenstine »

LamaOfRuin wrote: post #413
ravenstine wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that it isn't. I'm not a legal expert, but it seems that it could be argued that direct messages are implied private conversations, and that laws around recording audio implies that private spoken conversations can occur in offices. The fact that direct messages leave a history is merely a side effect that does not suggest that they are any less private than a spoken conversation behind closed doors. Howeve…

You might argue that, but you'd lose in a US court (and afaik most other western countries).

I won't deny that. ;)

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#444

Post by dsacco »

afastow wrote: post #437
Cacti wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think some companies need the ability to investigate things their employees are doing for the specific purpose of bringing it to the attention of government agencies PRIOR to warrants being issued and PRIOR to pissing off the entire federal government?

No? I'm being serious when I say this idea is absurd to me. If you have a serious level of concern about your employees doing something illegal then why are they your employee in the first place? If you are going to use "We need to be checking for illegal activity" as a justification, why stop at DMs? Why not ask your employees to always be carrying around a recording device that is constantly sending their verbal co…

> If you have a serious level of concern about your employees doing something illegal then why are they your employee in the first place?

Because “we don’t hire criminals” is not sustainable, just like “we only hire the best engineers” is not realistic. Strive for the best scenario and prepare for the worst.

> I'm assuming the answer is "expectation of privacy" or the lack-thereof for DMs, and I guess my response would be that we should go back to an expectation of privacy for DMs also.

But why? Why do you feel you’re entitled to privacy for your activity if it’s conducted over a communications medium in a workplace, owned by your employer and intended for work-related use? Your rights are guaranteed in the context of government transgression, not in the context of arbitrary corporate policy. For example, “freedom of speech” is not a meaningful right in a workplace setting either.

Your personal rights are not globally applicable in any context. You have avenues available to you for private communication if you’d like, but companies (rightfully) do not want to be responsible for that communication. They want to be responsible for workplace communication. So if you want a private chat, have a private chat outside of Slack. It’s very simple and straightforward.

Workplace communication channels are not intended to be, nor advertised as, safe harbors for digital privacy. You can have those, but companies have every right not support them for you. It’s not as though companies want you to have private conversations with people and then peek into them for juicy details. They want you to use their infrastructure for its indended purpose.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#445

Post by Cacti »

bbarn wrote: post #438
Cacti wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very odd. We've had corporate monitoring of practically all employee electronic activities for decades. It's enshrined in legislation and tested in case law. The capabilities are built into practically every major business software. There are whole industries built up around it. Yet suddenly everyone is losing their mind over some corporate IMs just because it's Slack? I feel like I'm on Reddit, not a site oste…

The difference is their privacy policy has been changed retroactively against the good faith their users had. That's the problem. Of course if it's corporate it's usually monitored, but when Slack championed the user and only catered to the company when forced (via compliance reports which told you they were enabled) and now suddenly switches to a model where past contracts are broken, people have a right to be upset…

I mean, it sounds more like people are upset because they are embarrassed how they acted in DMs, or said things they shouldn’t have about their colleagues, and now are worried someone will see that. It doesn’t sound accidental, but that they didn’t get an Export notice, so they thought they were free to talk shit and act however they wanted to. Presumably a lot of these individuals are at smaller companies where a “CIO” might be more inclined to go in and read everyone’s private drama.

I dunno, it’s hard for me to have much sympathy. It’s a rough lesson to learn if you are in your mid 20s and maybe didn’t know any better, but anyone who has been around for any length of time should know better than to put certain things in writing. That is, like, a life skill, not some Bay Area social contract.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#446

Post by kossae »

MarcScott wrote: post #416

IMHO I don't think this is a fair title change. What is important here is the fact that access to DMs have changed. Not that the general import/export tools have changed. If Google changed their TOS to suddenly make everyone's search history public, would the title read "Google changes TOS"?

This confused me as well, especially after coming back to it after the change. I had assumed some other Slack post went up and received equally or greater activity than the original post.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#447

Post by clairity »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

> "This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons."

there's the problem right there.

(1) need =/= want. you want those things to cover your butt. you're not entitled to them. do you really want to live in a surveillance/nanny state?

(2) the legal system can't save every person from negative consequences, nor can it truly compensate for negative consequences without other negative actions. stuff happens. let's be adults and sort them out ourselves rather than hoping some (imperfect) higher power can do it for us.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#448

Post by s73v3r_ »

peterkelly wrote: post #194
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

I mean, if you're using that capability to harass other employees, as the interns in the story were, then yeah, you deserve to be treated as a child, because you basically are.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#449

Post by welterde »

tedivm wrote: post #224
peterkelly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

I hate to tell you this but if you would quit a job for this reason you probably can't work in the US. The US has laws about corporate compliance, and it has requirements for things like dealing with sexual harassment. There is no such thing as a "private conversation" that takes place over a corporate network. For example, in the US sexual harassment is taken seriously. If a company gets a complaint of sexual harass…

Doesn't the same logic also apply to internal phone calls?

Or is the main point here about giving access to data that has been collected already and not requiring the business to collect this data. If for example the used instant messaging solution didn't keep any log files - what problems would arise for the business? If any arise, why would phones be exempt? Or do businesses in the US really record all internal phone calls?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#450

Post by isatty »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #293
gburt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

`whyever` said _end-to-end_ encrypted, presumably meaning "between the intended recipient and I," not "between a middleman and I." Of course, you also need to trust your hardware.

Then of course, if the hardware is provided by the employer...the Second and Third Rule is already broken, game over.

Are there any guides to check for shady SSL certificate shenanigans on an employer provided Mac?
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