Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

penguindreams.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 295 posts

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#241

Post by s73v3r_ »

YogeeKnows wrote: post #68

This is just one of those things which looks evil from 'Employee' perspective but important enough from 'Employer' Perspective. You have to also look at the how these clauses found their way into these contracts. Certain professions; Legal/Software/IT Services/Accounting; make it very easy for one or group of employees, to just take a company's current clients, offer them a low price, and start a new firm thereby cau…

"This is just one of those things which looks evil from 'Employee' perspective"

Because it is.

"but important enough from 'Employer' Perspective."

Because they want to limit my ability to better my position. They want me staying where I am, with the company.

"You have to also look at the how these clauses found their way into these contracts."

Overzealous lawyers?

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#242

Post by s73v3r_ »

YogeeKnows wrote: post #106
rrdharan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also Most software engineers when they leave the company take backup of not only the entire code they've written but also the entire code for the project they've been working on. Is that really common practice? I don't doubt some people do this but it seems very foolish to me so I'm surprised that you think most engineers do this.

I have seen people bring in Portable Hard disks and copy the code. Lets say you have developed a utility messenger bot which alerts you every time SLA of your support ticket is about to be crossed. A developer would like to keep this 'completed+working' code with them to reuse in next projects. One of my employees left the company and he took all the Unity assets (assetstore.unity3d.com) I had purchased. I realized t…

That's not employer code.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#243

Post by isostatic »

Bartweiss wrote: post #200
isostatic wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why they've done it -- stop you from inventing something at work, knowing you can't sell it immediately, so leaving and selling it after you've left.

But the presumption clause is absolutely insane. Even if you can prove something was done after you left the company, they're still considered the owner. Imagine someone quit that job today, 6 months later room temperature superconductors were invented, and 2 months after that the ex-employee invented a great new use for them. It's literally impossible that the invention was made at the job, but the contract still ap…

I didn't say I agreed it (I don't), just suggesting why the firm things their clause may be reasonable.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#244

Post by coldacid »

ilovecars2 wrote: post #88
athenot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states, it's not enforceable unless there's a monetary compensation that goes along with it.

In Europe a lot of these non competes are unenforceable. I work for a U.S startup in the U.K. (British citizen) some of the clauses in our contract are just flat out illegal. It’s also 26 pages long, which is almost unheard of in the U.K. I asked about it and it turns out it was written at a U.S law firm.

I would expect 26 pages is unheard of even in the USA.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#245

Post by ryandrake »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #224
ryandrake wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every employer I’ve ever worked for has laid claim to all IP I produce, even on my own time using my own equipment at home. This is a very common clause in any tech company’s employment agreement. If you’re going to run away from these, your employment options are severely limited. The “within 1 year” thing, however is one I haven’t seen before. Ugly!

In California, it is flat out illegal for an employer to claim stuff you've created using your own equipment on your own time. As it should be. Many believe this is one of the reasons Silicon Valley became what it is.

...illegal, but with a loophole you can drive a truck through: if the employer thinks your project is close enough to what they do (or might one day do) it’s theirs. Beware!

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#246

Post by s73v3r_ »

foo101 wrote: post #82
maxxxxx wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't go into reasons, " Agree with that. Never explain your reasoning without being asked. It makes you look weak.

And also gives them an opportunity to offer a counter-argument which now requires you to offer your own counter-argument which could lead to a long and unpleasant debate. Not a great way to start work at a new company.

Most employers are shitty. That's just a fact of life.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#247

Post by s73v3r_ »

quickConclusion wrote: post #60

Thought experiment: it may be interesting for a corporation to insert a fairly crazy NCA rule just to see how the applicant reacts. Every now and then there are some crazy stuff happening in big organizations, and you probably want someone who is able to call those out, politely but firmly, rather than pushing them under the rug.

I don't think the lawyers would allow that kind of trickery.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#248

Post by deskamess »

Doches wrote: post #228

From the tail end of the OP: > I’m a Computer Scientist. We don’t have unions and we don’t collectively bargain. Basic workers rights are our responsibility I've always been bothered by this question. Why _don't_ we have unions? What is it about the tech industry that makes it so resistant (especially in the US) to labor organization? I work in the EU for a US company, and my American colleagues universally seem to f…

When we are young hubris and arrogance are quite up there. We are worshipped with $100K+ salaries and it goes to our head. We do not think about age-ism or time needed to spend with a spouse, a child, or a parent. There is a lot of stuff that comes down the road, but right now, all we know is that we are gods. No need for a CBA - even though other high paying professionals use it. No use of agents who can bargain better on our behalf.

We know we can do it all. And we do. Life slowly comes into play. Family, health, house... the dynamics change. Your control diminishes. You look behind and a new generation is at the employment door. You keep your skills up with what time you have available but not sure if you have chosen the right skills to upgrade. Too many variables. A good portion of your retirment is likely at the mercy of the stock market.

Having an entity representing the interests of an employee is not in the interest of an employer. It makes them more expensive. So change is going to be difficult. It is hard for a union to grow if the drivers are older. It requires the early and middle part of the employee age distribution participating to be effective as they are not easily replaced.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#249

Post by s73v3r_ »

ryandrake wrote: post #245
s73v3r_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, it is flat out illegal for an employer to claim stuff you've created using your own equipment on your own time. As it should be. Many believe this is one of the reasons Silicon Valley became what it is.

...illegal, but with a loophole you can drive a truck through: if the employer thinks your project is close enough to what they do (or might one day do) it’s theirs. Beware!

But they have to prove this to a judge. The onus is now on them to prove that the thing is related enough to keep you from feeding your family.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#250

Post by sedachv »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #231
jxramos wrote: post #16

I remember reading about these clauses in contracts as the "fear and loathing" clause https://books.google.com/books?id=nWWAGnBDzJEC&lpg=PA164&ots...

Glad I read that. Thank you. I probably be taking a look at the rest of that book. Is it worth the full read?

Not the OP. I have read that book and highly recommend it.
Post reply on HN