Illegal in any country with just about decent employee protection. Looking forward to the lawsuits in EU
EU court of human rights disagrees with you.
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Press_Q_A_Barbulescu_ENG....
Guide to Slack import and export tools
411–420 of 529 posts
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#412As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…
If they harassed them in toilet would you install cameras there? =P
Sorry, but that's the same kind of argument for invading someone's privacy and justifying surveillance.
I doubt that anyone would agree even if you said you'll watch the videos only when necessary.
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
Recording audio and bugging offices is a completely different matter than reading through already preserved text that exists on company infrastructure (email or slack conversations). The records already exist in the case we're talking about. Presumably the victim would share the harassing messages, but by being able to review the records directly the supervisors can gain more information such as whether the harasser…
I'd argue that it isn't. I'm not a legal expert, but it seems that it could be argued that direct messages are implied private conversations, and that laws around recording audio implies that private spoken conversations can occur in offices. The fact that direct messages leave a history is merely a side effect that does not suggest that they are any less private than a spoken conversation behind closed doors. Howeve…
You might argue that, but you'd lose in a US court (and afaik most other western countries).
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
If harassers, as you have mentioned, can simply switch to another channel, then what problem exactly is this measure trying to solve? I'm honestly confused.
Friction. Yes they could use PGP messages. But most people are idiots and use the systems that are available and simple. If somebody needs to think "I've got to go through these extra steps to be an asshole" then they might think twice in the first place.
No need for PGP. Using any other messenger that won't give private information out for no reason would be enough.
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Meh. Nobody should be surprised by any of this in the slightest. If your employer provides / pays for any kind of communications tool, the only sane position is to assume that they can - and probably do - monitor every single byte you send.
That's what I'm thinking. I mean... of course employers expect to be able to have access to communication done by employees in the course of doing their jobs. They've been able to do this with every (archivable) communication medium since the invention of writing. Where is the news here? If you want privacy use a private channel. Your employer's work tools don't qualify.
By private channel, I assume you mean a completely separate system that is not slack, and not a private slack channel (which, prior to this, was private from slack workspace admins, with hilarious results).
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#416IMHO I don't think this is a fair title change. What is important here is the fact that access to DMs have changed. Not that the general import/export tools have changed.
If Google changed their TOS to suddenly make everyone's search history public, would the title read "Google changes TOS"?
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Compare that to our email, where I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be. This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons." Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe.
Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe No, it isn't. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/business/european-court-e... To wit: “Today’s ruling is fairly clear in how it outlines the parameters of monitoring employees,” said Stephen Ravenscroft, a London-based partner specializing in employment law at White & Case, a law firm. “It won’t be sufficient for employers to have a general policy permitting monitoring — the poli…
From that article:
> In an 11 to 6 ruling, [the ECHR] found that Mr. Barbulescu’s privacy rights had been violated [after he had been fired for sending personal messages using his corporate account].
and
> Furthermore, the chamber found, Romanian courts did not sufficiently examine the company’s need to read the entirety of Mr. Barbulescu’s messages, or the seriousness of the consequences of the monitoring, which resulted in dismissal.
and
> The chamber ruled that countries should ensure that companies’ efforts to monitor employees’ communications are “accompanied by adequate and sufficient safeguards against abuse.”
So at least it's a more nuanced view than "I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be".
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
what if your cafeteria conversation is recorded on a camera without your consent and used as an evidence against you? is it legal or invasion of privacy?
Slack seems more like an official meeting room than a cafeteria. Cafeteria is a messenger on my personal phone.
of course if you are in group chat on slack. One on One messages with friends with in the company, except your managers etc, cant be a cafeteria conversation?
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#419As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…
Instant messaging is used to express instant thoughts. Instant thoughts can be used against you if accessible by the employer. So why using instant messages over email if you anyway need to think through your instant messages in Slack like you do with emails? Let's use emails then.
I think most people will only learn the importance of privacy after having been affected personally.
Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools
#420As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…
It's called "private" for a reason. If someone harasses me on Slack, I have proof of that, because they wrote me a message. If people have private conversations about anything, it should be of no one's concern. Same goes for Signal or Whatsapp, it's a private conversation. It's like putting microphones everywhere and then fire people who have a bad day and say something stupid once in a while, would you like that? Th…
Yeah, and there's a reason some places have laws against bugging offices. One key thing is that everyone should be clear on what's recorded and what's not, and "if it's written down" at least has the virtue of relative simplicity. Probably if it's not supposed to be fair game for later investigation it shouldn't be logged at all.
I think part of the trouble is that we spend too much time at work for most people to actually be productive the whole time -- if you buy the notion that it's reasonable for people to be at work to work, and they shouldn't be socializing whathaveyou, then logging everything seems more reasonable than if you recognize that no one can actually be a drone 40/hr a week, then the surveillance starts to look like de facto surveillance of stuff other than the job, which is more worrying.
I am in the privileged position of doing freelance work, on my own machine, mostly remote. As such, if I'm using a client's communication systems it is essentially guaranteed to be work related, so having it logged doesn't bother me; if I'm not working I'm using something else. But being monitored for half your waking hours five days a week feels much more onerous.
I suspect some of a this is tension with reasonable expectations of levels of monitoring from when less of our communication was via the network.