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Guide to Slack import and export tools

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Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#381

Post by pyjammas »

protomyth wrote: post #209
peterkelly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

> abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees Abusing your privileged access?!? You do realize some of us are required to access those communications for a variety of reasons especially because a threat is happening? Also, I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's accou…

While I sympathize with that concern, I do really believe that actively preventing employees from employing natural means of 'private' conversation is squarely in the 'panopticon' sphere of employment. I find it difficult enough that people can be 'owned' for full work weeks as far as their physical presence, but I suppose I'm pragmatic enough to accept that this is the status quo. But the thought that they are actively monitored during this time, preventing them from even private venting and communicating in a way that is not monitored, is much harder to accept.

We're talking about people here. While I personally have never understood how anyone can accept being under the thumb of an employer for such long periods of time out of their productive years, I've learned to see that this is bearable within the relative freedom that this usually entails (complaining about x colleague, grumbling about the boss with the support staff, after-work beers with a manager who grumbles about his manager), I truly cannot understand how one can have a dignified life as an individual when all your forms of communication are being watched by your overlords.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#382

Post by asow92 »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

Maybe you should start at the root of the issue and vet your interns before bringing them on.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#383

Post by jimktrains2 »

thefifthsetpin wrote: post #362

Yesterday, a private channel existed where your employee Jim may have mentioned to his friend and coworker that he had a date with his male partner. Today, that data became available to you. You were planning to fire Jim, but now there's a risk that it would look discriminatory. Do you risk a wrongful termination lawsuit and dragging your company's name through the mud? You could check his slack messages to assess th…

Wait a month and then do it while making sure you have a clear case. I believe similar advice is given if there is an OSHA check -- since you can't know why you were checked, it's best to wait before firing anyone for non-blatant/egregious, even if it's with cause and evidence.

> This seems like the same minefield as asking an employee to login to his facebook.

How is this like facebook? It's a corporate medium, just like email would be, or like a company-run XMPP or IRC server.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#384

Post by kuschku »

dsacco wrote: post #373
kuschku wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ECHR said that the employer has no right to access any private employee communication, even if it happened at work. That contradicts what you’re saying quite a bit.

It doesn't contradict what I'm saying. If you mean the Romanian case, the ultimate resolution was that 1) an employee has an expectation of privacy for personal communication on personal channels on a corporate machine, and 2) if an employee's personal internet usage is going to be monitored on a corporate machine, they must know before the monitoring begins. The ECHR didn't have any problem with the monitoring in ge…

Slack can be used for e.g. union organizing, which an employer may not read either, and "they must know before the monitoring begins" is obviously not given here.

This doesn’t look good for Slack.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#385

Post by DoreenMichele »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

With the recent Facebook news, I should have thought that sort of concern was obvious.

It's always going to be Eternal September somewhere on the internet.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#387

Post by ravenstine »

tedivm wrote: post #302
ravenstine wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That line or reasoning makes no sense. If that were true, then states like California couldn't make it illegal for companies to eavesdrop on its employees(e.g. recording audio, bugging offices). But allowing companies to read direct messages is very, very similar. Also, what's preventing a victim of harassment from handing over the offending messages? I don't see how this helps anyone.

Recording audio and bugging offices is a completely different matter than reading through already preserved text that exists on company infrastructure (email or slack conversations). The records already exist in the case we're talking about. Presumably the victim would share the harassing messages, but by being able to review the records directly the supervisors can gain more information such as whether the harasser…

I'd argue that it isn't. I'm not a legal expert, but it seems that it could be argued that direct messages are implied private conversations, and that laws around recording audio implies that private spoken conversations can occur in offices. The fact that direct messages leave a history is merely a side effect that does not suggest that they are any less private than a spoken conversation behind closed doors.

However, I would need to know the actual intent of such laws, which I don't. Let's say that the intent is to allow for private conversations, then that premise also suggests that messages between two individuals(as opposed to ones in a channel) are only intended to be read by those two participants, hence a conversation that is private. Nobody sends direct messages with the intent that they be read by people besides the recipient.

Why would you need a crude one-sided copy and paste? A password, a cookie, or even an API token, can already provide as much information to authorities as would be provided by that of Slack team admins. There is no need for anyone besides the messaging participants and authorities to see someone's DM history, either technically or philosophically.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#388

Post by mijamo »

dspillett wrote: post #314
peterkelly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

> If two people want to have a private conversation You response is based on a false fact: that anything you use official company communication channels for should be considered private. HR functions can and will access such communication to investigate complaints about behaviour and similar. Compliance and legal functions can and will access such communication to investigate complaints relevant to them. They can, wi…

That is only according to some law systems though. It does not work like that at all in many European countries. For instance in France the employer cannot read any private conversation (mail/message) of the employee, even when using work email. And no internal rule can change that (it is a criminal offense). If the employer suspects a leak of information by the employee, they can read the message in presence of the employee and a union member, and only in those circumstances.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#390

Post by heartbreak »

ggregoire wrote: post #274

I'm always surprised by the amount of DMs people send in Slack. I've worked in 2 companies using Slack and, in both, about 80% of the total messages were DMs. It seems crazy high to me. I wonder if people just send all day private stuff unrelated to work, or if people have trouble with trust and transparence on the workspace..

I use DMs to avoid spamming my entire team with a discussion that only relates to one other member.
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