Guide to Slack import and export tools • Hacker News Board

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#201

Post by enzo1982 » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

spelunker wrote: post #156

random4369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an infinite space of solutions to your particular problem, but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? I avoid workplaces which force shit like this. So do all the good developers I know, because they're people who can afford to be choosy. Bullies are pretty adept at functioning in these environments. Instead of harassing on monitored DMs, they'll mak…

> I avoid workplaces which force shit like this. So do all the good developers I know, because they're people who can afford to be choosy. So you and your choosy developer friends work at a place where IT can't access your corporate email?

In Germany (and probably the whole EU) it's illegal for an employer to read an employee's mails without approval of the workers' council for each individual case.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#202

Post by dempseye » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

calcifer wrote: post #140

random4369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an infinite space of solutions to your particular problem, but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? I avoid workplaces which force shit like this. So do all the good developers I know, because they're people who can afford to be choosy. Bullies are pretty adept at functioning in these environments. Instead of harassing on monitored DMs, they'll mak…

> totalitarian surveillance > got offended > Bullies > soul-destroying shithole It's funny how these sort of comments always come from recently created throwaway accounts.

Why do you think that is?

How would you describe the tenor of the comment?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#203

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

peterkelly wrote: post #194

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

You had better work for yourself then. EDiscovery is a thing, and employee preference will never trump a judge’s order.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#204

Post by guitarbill » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

pera wrote: post #180

theobon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that harassment was direct, sending messages to the accusers. My impression is that this was a group chatting privately about the accusers either making fun of them or coordinating actions. While this can be done through other channels (in person or private cellphone) allowing it on corporate infrastructure without monitoring is not acceptable.

If harassers, as you have mentioned, can simply switch to another channel, then what problem exactly is this measure trying to solve? I'm honestly confused.

Ass-covering. It should've been obvious as soon as HR was mentioned that this isn't about helping employees, harassed or not.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#205

Post by raldi » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

drinchev wrote: post #92

Looking at all positive comments here, this is generally a bad news. Not sure how much compliant this is with the law, but in this case the law should be more protective towards employees. I imagine the following situation I write on a company-owned piece of paper - "My boss is an idiot". Then take this piece of paper put it in an envelope ( owned by the company as well ), write the name of my colleague and seal the…

Your boss is absolutely allowed to open an envelope on your desk if it's clearly a business-related piece of mail, and your employee handbook almost certainly says that your corporate Slack account is only to be used for business purposes.

In fact, your boss is allowed to open any mail sent to your work address.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/abg/2015/07/1...

http://www.askamanager.org/2010/08/is-it-legal-for-my-boss-t...

http://employment.findlaw.com/workplace-privacy/privacy-at-w...

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#206

Post by k__ » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

bpicolo wrote: post #137

k__ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be fired for that comment alone.

Every big enterprise on the planet has your email to whip-out and read if legal issues arise, whether that's for internal reasons or for something like SOX compliance or running into problems with the SEC. It's a total necessity for big public companies.

Guess that's what's wrong with such entities...

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#207

Post by chimeracoder » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #188

s3nnyy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Compare that to our email, where I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be. This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons." Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe.

Europe consists of plenty of countries, all of them different. It seems like statements on HN about how it is "in Europe" is usually Americans writing fan fiction about some never-never land.

> Europe consists of plenty of countries, all of them different. It seems like statements on HN about how it is "in Europe" is usually Americans writing fan fiction about some never-never land.

Yes, this is a common trope on HN (and the Internet in general). People have selective memories, and it's easy for people - unintentionally - to remember the most favorable laws from individual countries, stitch the together in their minds, and then form perceptions on the composite image. It's generally not conscious, but it happens pretty frequently.

And in some cases - such as this one - people are just flat-out misinformed about the situation in Europe. (As pointed out in other comments, this is legal in the EU, subject to comparable restrictions as it is subject to in the US). It's not surprising that a feature Slack is marketing specifically to business users is, in fact, legal for businesses to use in one of their largest markets.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#208

Post by JshWright » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

peterkelly wrote: post #194

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

>I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

Are you replying to the right comment? From the example given, it seems no action was taken until the parties involved proved such supervision was necessary.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#209

Post by protomyth » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

peterkelly wrote: post #194

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

> abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees

Abusing your privileged access?!? You do realize some of us are required to access those communications for a variety of reasons especially because a threat is happening? Also, I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's account.

> I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

Well, that might save me a bit of trouble, but at the point I am asked to look at your account, I get the feeling you are on your way out anyway or will shortly have a lawyer or the police contacting you.

The communication systems you use as an employee are not yours.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#210

Post by petermcneeley » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

So long as they can go through your chat history it seems very reasonable and is not simply a further entrenchment of the structure of power.

Information is power: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tvanantwerp