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From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

engineering-management.space

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Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#11

Post by dizzystar »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Another thing I’m getting is that the new kids won’t like rails, and it’s being harder to hire. I'm surprised by this, to me the language used would be a long way down the list when evaluating an employer.

For some reason, Rails seems to always have some weird commentary attached to it.

Years back, I've had people tell me they stopped using Rails because it was too hard to find good problem solvers. That didn't diminish the continued success of the framework.

As an antidote to the comment, I was recently at a Ruby meetup. Everyone was on Rails and everyone was younger.

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#12

Post by pmarreck »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Another thing I’m getting is that the new kids won’t like rails, and it’s being harder to hire. I'm surprised by this, to me the language used would be a long way down the list when evaluating an employer.

Spotted the guy who's never used an immutable language with pattern-matching

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#14

Post by bitwize »

tcopeland wrote: post #2

In the "things learned from Ruby" section: Focus on strong object oriented programming What I've learned from Ruby is to favor functional programming concepts - minimize side effects, isolate state mutation, etc. Ruby is definitely OO, but when my Ruby code is more functional it's less buggy, easier to understand and move around, and generally less convoluted.

I've learned to think of objects as not exactly monadic, but monad-like in their pattern of use: whenever there's a bit of state that I need to track and isolate from all other state in the system, wrap that in a class. The allowable state transitions then become methods.

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#15

Post by oregontechninja »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Another thing I’m getting is that the new kids won’t like rails, and it’s being harder to hire. I'm surprised by this, to me the language used would be a long way down the list when evaluating an employer.

It's because we don't like or approve of rails. It doesn't make business sense to us (us being a completely anecdotal group of young developers I'm friends with). There are other solutions that provide sufficiently more developer speed and safety, while also providing much better performance than any rails application.

Edit: I guess I just hang out with like minded people, but our biases shouldn't negate the fact that this is a very common feeling where I am.

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#16

Post by blunte »

tcopeland wrote: post #2

In the "things learned from Ruby" section: Focus on strong object oriented programming What I've learned from Ruby is to favor functional programming concepts - minimize side effects, isolate state mutation, etc. Ruby is definitely OO, but when my Ruby code is more functional it's less buggy, easier to understand and move around, and generally less convoluted.

Ruby used functionally is great, but it takes an already time-inefficient language and amplifies that weakness (lots of creating new collections and returning them, whereas normally in Ruby you would modify elements within the collection).

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#17

Post by chaostheory »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Another thing I’m getting is that the new kids won’t like rails, and it’s being harder to hire. I'm surprised by this, to me the language used would be a long way down the list when evaluating an employer.

I don't think it's that newcomers won't like Rails. I feel it just makes sense to go all Javascript instead since that's where the momentum is now and doing everything in one language has a lot of benefits especially when it's something as ubiquitous as javascript.

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#19

Post by grzm »

blunte wrote: post #18

Clojure does not have an alien syntax. As with Lisps in general, it has almost no syntax. (operator param param ...) Done.

Alien is relative. For someone who has only worked with, say, Algol derivatives, it can take some getting used to. Likely less than people often think, but it's still a shift. And it's hardly the point of the submission as a whole.

Re: From Rails to Clojure, Then to Java, Then Back to Rails

#20

Post by erokar »

oregontechninja wrote: post #15
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Another thing I’m getting is that the new kids won’t like rails, and it’s being harder to hire. I'm surprised by this, to me the language used would be a long way down the list when evaluating an employer.

It's because we don't like or approve of rails. It doesn't make business sense to us (us being a completely anecdotal group of young developers I'm friends with). There are other solutions that provide sufficiently more developer speed and safety, while also providing much better performance than any rails application. Edit: I guess I just hang out with like minded people, but our biases shouldn't negate the fact tha…

What other solutions are you youngsters using then? Elixir/Phoenix? Django/Python? Node? Haskell?
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