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Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

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Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#81

Post by vonmoltke »

tboyd47 wrote: post #34
joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

Non-compete agreements like that aren't enforceable in every state. Check the laws of your state.

That isn't a non-compete clause. It's an IP assignment clause. For our profession that is effectively the same thing, but the legal distinction is important.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#82

Post by foo101 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #74
vorpalhex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hi, would it be possible to remove clause X?" usually works for me. I've occasionally had to use the slightly stronger, "I'm sorry, but I actually can't sign this until clause X is removed." Don't go into reasons, or get into a philosophical debate about it. The only time I've given an explanation was for a volunteer gig where I refused to sign an NDA at all, and had to explain to the coordinator "We can either be e…

"Don't go into reasons, " Agree with that. Never explain your reasoning without being asked. It makes you look weak.

And also gives them an opportunity to offer a counter-argument which now requires you to offer your own counter-argument which could lead to a long and unpleasant debate. Not a great way to start work at a new company.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#83

Post by toolslive »

I'm not a lawyer, but in Belgium these type of agreements are subject to extra constraints. For example a non-compete can only be triggered if they payed you enough. The reasoning is that if you did not earn enough you were not important enough for the company to have such a clause. They also need to compensate the fact they are invoking it (at least 6 months of wages iirc). Anyway, check with your legal representative how valid/legal the clause is, and if it isn't you can sign.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#84

Post by falcolas »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

It's silly and annoying, but I saw them crop up twice while looking for work two years ago. Both times it was non-negotiable - the justification being "we'd only use it to get back any work you took with you after leaving".

It seems like one of those "Oracle's doing this, so why don't we do it as well?"

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#85

Post by evilmushroom »

My division got laid off... my company is paying my full salary + bonus through my enforced non-compete duration of a year, which I think is the right thing to do if they're going to enforce such. (and knowing what I know, and what I worked on, it's in their best interests)

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#86

Post by rgbrenner »

YogeeKnows wrote: post #68

This is just one of those things which looks evil from 'Employee' perspective but important enough from 'Employer' Perspective. You have to also look at the how these clauses found their way into these contracts. Certain professions; Legal/Software/IT Services/Accounting; make it very easy for one or group of employees, to just take a company's current clients, offer them a low price, and start a new firm thereby cau…

Also Most software engineers when they leave the company take backup of not only the entire code they've written but also the entire code for the project they've been working on. Thats why the IP Protection clause.

Great way to get sued. That's going to be logged. Isn't this what got Levandowski in trouble when leaving Google?

I definitely do not do this. In fact, once you stop paying me, I don't care about your code in anymore. It goes in the trash. It's not my problem after that.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#87

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

Sean1708 wrote: post #76
paultopia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was very generous. I'd have laughed in their face in a similar situation.

No point burning bridges if you don't have to, you never know when a connection could come in handy.

That's why you say no in a professional way. But I would still say no. If professionally saying no to such an unreasonable request burns a bridge, then it isn't just a bridge you shouldn't miss, it is a bridge that is better burned.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#88

Post by ilovecars2 »

athenot wrote: post #50
stupidcar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. That is way, WAY crazier than a non-compete. That is saying you can't work at all for a year after your employment terminates, because anything you produce during that time is presumed to have actually been created during your previous employment, and so belongs to your ex-employer. Even if you go and work for a non-competing company in a completely different field, and invent something totally unrelated t…

In some states, it's not enforceable unless there's a monetary compensation that goes along with it.

In Europe a lot of these non competes are unenforceable. I work for a U.S startup in the U.K. (British citizen) some of the clauses in our contract are just flat out illegal. It’s also 26 pages long, which is almost unheard of in the U.K. I asked about it and it turns out it was written at a U.S law firm.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#89

Post by koolba »

athenot wrote: post #50
stupidcar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. That is way, WAY crazier than a non-compete. That is saying you can't work at all for a year after your employment terminates, because anything you produce during that time is presumed to have actually been created during your previous employment, and so belongs to your ex-employer. Even if you go and work for a non-competing company in a completely different field, and invent something totally unrelated t…

In some states, it's not enforceable unless there's a monetary compensation that goes along with it.

Wouldn't your salary during the employment term be that consideration?

Consideration need not be during the same period. I can pay you $X today for something that covers the next N years.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#90

Post by CodeCube »

rrdharan wrote: post #77
YogeeKnows wrote: post #68

This is just one of those things which looks evil from 'Employee' perspective but important enough from 'Employer' Perspective. You have to also look at the how these clauses found their way into these contracts. Certain professions; Legal/Software/IT Services/Accounting; make it very easy for one or group of employees, to just take a company's current clients, offer them a low price, and start a new firm thereby cau…

> Also Most software engineers when they leave the company take backup of not only the entire code they've written but also the entire code for the project they've been working on. Is that really common practice? I don't doubt some people do this but it seems very foolish to me so I'm surprised that you think most engineers do this.

I've known enough people that have done this, as to believe it to be pretty common
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