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Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

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Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#31

Post by vorpalhex »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #10

How can I politely say "no way" while still getting the job?

"Hi, would it be possible to remove clause X?" usually works for me. I've occasionally had to use the slightly stronger, "I'm sorry, but I actually can't sign this until clause X is removed."

Don't go into reasons, or get into a philosophical debate about it. The only time I've given an explanation was for a volunteer gig where I refused to sign an NDA at all, and had to explain to the coordinator "We can either be employee and employer where you pay me a lot more money then you have, or we can be two buddies working on a thing for free. We can't be two buddies where one guy has a contract against everyone else."

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#32

Post by sigzero »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

It's not enforceable. However, in that post year if you "invent" something and they can tie it back to their business "somehow", they will come after you (maybe).

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#34

Post by tboyd47 »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

Non-compete agreements like that aren't enforceable in every state. Check the laws of your state.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#35

Post by paulie_a »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

The "I assign everything I do" aspect is complete bullshit anyways. The post 1 year makes it greedy. Personally I would unprofessionally laugh at the contact person and then specifically call them out for that sort of crap. Swearing might/would be justified.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#36

Post by holstvoogd »

I've signed some crazy NCA's in my time, it the full knowledge that the only way to enforce them (here in the Netherlands that is), is through a judge that will asses the if it is reasonable and will force the employer to continue paying you in full until said NCA expires and it prevents you from performing your profession.

I'll sign that 'you will not work in IT for 2 years' and take 2 years paid vacation if you insist on enforcing it, thank you ;)

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#37

Post by Thiez »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

That's crazy, copyright also counts as intellectual property, so technically you'd have to promptly communicate to the company almost everything that you write (I'm pretty sure all of your HN posts would qualify), every stick figure you draw, every song you hum (you have copyright on your performance). That contract forbids you from doing any creative work for a year after you quit (or are fired). I don't suppose that contract included a year's wages as severence pay?

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#38

Post by lambda_lover »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #10

How can I politely say "no way" while still getting the job?

In my experience the problem is that these clauses are traditionally presented to you by a non-technical employee typically from HR, and (in my anecdotal experience) these employees usually try to dismiss your concerns with a "oh it's just a formality" or "all companies make you sign this sort of thing!"... so if you're not important enough to talk to someone higher up, you might just get your offer revoked if you try to fight it because your HR contact isn't important enough/doesn't care enough to fight against it for you, and the legal department only has so much time for custom agreements.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#40

Post by lmkg »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

(IANAL)

Not signing the contract is one thing. Misrepresenting your position is something else. If you gave the impression that you agreed to the terms provided, then it's possible you could be held to those terms.

A contract isn't defined by a signature. A contract is defined by a "meeting of the minds." The signature is commonly-accepted evidence that such a thing occurred, but it's not essential.

By pocketing the contract rather than pointing it out to them, you've arguably violated the "meeting of the minds." The company was under the impression that was part of the agreement. You can dither about "due diligence" and say it was there responsibility to check, but in some cases that can be seen as an intentional misrepresentation on your part, for which there are consequences.

I will concede that this is unlikely to come back to bite you in practice. But others should be aware that it is technically playing with fire. And personally, I consider it unethical.

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