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Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

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Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#11

Post by mseebach »

tomohawk wrote: post #6
sillyquiet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I get that approach, but tbh I would rather hash that out with a company before I get hired rather than 4 months down the road when some HR person notices the paperwork is incomplete.

By that point, the paperwork is complete. The hiring completes the transaction as being satisfactory to both sides.

Depends. There could be a reference in the main contract listing execution of the non-compete as a condition of the validity of the contract.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#12

Post by taneq »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

I've done this with a client in the past. They badly needed my help but tried to get me to sign some ridiculous paperwork (basically a noncompete / NDA plus more simply for being on the premises). They handed me the paperwork to fill out, I smiled and nodded, end of story. They asked about it again a few weeks later and I just said I didn't get around to it. Never came up again.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#13

Post by crusso »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

Kind of an interesting approach to it, I guess. I wonder how far you could take such a thing.

   * Could you initial every page but remove any pages you didn't like from a single contract?
   * Could you insert your own subtly edited version of their non-compete that you signed?
I'm wondering where the legal line is between the employer's need to do due diligence and the expectation that the employee isn't doing something to trick the employer into thinking that everyone agrees to the employment arrangement.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#14

Post by maxxxxx »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #10

How can I politely say "no way" while still getting the job?

I think by politley saying "no way" :). When I did contracting I saw excessive non competes and usually when I told them calmly that I wouldn't sign this they would back off without problems. Only some companies made a fuzz.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#15

Post by lr4444lr »

Good article, except for the strange conflation of non-compete with debt. Debt implies an asset of value was received by the debtor at some point. No such thing takes place with a non-compete. Employment itself is a contract, not an asset. That's the reasoning behind CA's ban of these clauses.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#17

Post by stupidcar »

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

Holy shit. That is way, WAY crazier than a non-compete. That is saying you can't work at all for a year after your employment terminates, because anything you produce during that time is presumed to have actually been created during your previous employment, and so belongs to your ex-employer. Even if you go and work for a non-competing company in a completely different field, and invent something totally unrelated to your ex-employer's business, then it supposedly belongs to your ex-employer. Since no new employer could accept that situation, it essentially prevents you from working.

I'm sure that can't be enforceable at all, but it's still completely sickening that a company would put something like that in its terms.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#18

Post by Carioca »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

I've had an HR person tell me I needed to sign an NDA on the day I quit because it was missing (they forgot to hand me mine the day everyone got theirs). It included minimum damages of one year's salary for ANY breach. I had a lawyer friend write a much nicer and more reasonable version and told them that was the most I would sign. The only reason I even signed anything was to preserve the connections I had made there.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#19

Post by djsumdog »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

I've had two agreements that were separate pages, but all the recent ones were part of the actual job offer or employment contract. I feel like that's becoming more the standard/boilerplate.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#20

Post by lightbyte »

crusso wrote: post #13
tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

Kind of an interesting approach to it, I guess. I wonder how far you could take such a thing. * Could you initial every page but remove any pages you didn't like from a single contract? * Could you insert your own subtly edited version of their non-compete that you signed? I'm wondering where the legal line is between the employer's need to do due diligence and the expectation that the employee isn't doing something…

Sounds like this [1] case where a man received a credit card offer in the mail, re-wrote some terms and sent it back, and the bank accepted it without reading it. He did win the initial lawsuit from the bank.

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowin...

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