Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

theverge.com

371–380 of 662 posts

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of big evil things like Comcast, you might be surprised how few ISPs keep detailed logs like this. The effort to correlate them with customers is generally not worth it unless you get a subpoena, and only then is it done manually.

(UK) The new surveillance law requires web and phone companies to store everyone’s web browsing histories for 12 months and give the police, security services and official agencies unprecedented access to the data. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...

What an ISP logs it's traffic made by ips not people

Facebook tracks people not ips

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#372
post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

Sometimes everything is OK until it isn't. Critical Mass can take awhile to build.

The 'why is this news' sentiment is understandable, but people underestimate how much this kind of public /mainstream attention can matter when it comes to action being taken.

The only analogy I can think of is smoking. IIRC there was already a consensus about their dangers in the fifties, but it took decades, in part by strong lobbying efforts, before the public accepted/internalized this truth.

Similarly, the #metoo thing might cause shrugs among those who were in the know for a while, but I'm sure the public outrage will have lasting effects. I mean, Cosby's crimes were an open secret until suddenly it wasn't (a comedian went viral, or something like that?).

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um... you can’t say “whataboutism” when you are comparing two directly hypocritical reactions to the same scenario. CA sold data to Trump, Rubio, and others - pitchforks! FB gives data to Obama and Clinton, marketing awards and praise.

CA sold stolen data and bragged about blackmailing politicians. Gonna need a citation of Obama being even remotely involved in something like that. Classic deflection.

Look at Wikileaks and Assange's tweets today. The screenshots are more concrete evidence ( fake or not ) than I've seen related to this CA thing.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#374
I wonder if the Americans freaking out about this whole foreign influence thing have any idea what their nation has done to other countries' (both democracies and otherwise). What's happened here is a complete joke in comparison, and everyone is losing their head. Do people have any idea what the modern world has been like?

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#375

Instead of requiring Facebook and google to improve their ways, if we all started using ad-blockers more aggressively, setting up things like pihole for our family members and friends, wouldn't this solve the problem since companies won't have any incentive of collecting the data? It seems to me to be a much better idea that expecting multi-billion corporations to act against their interests.

Not really, the companies would then start asking for the information they want directly from the users. Take for example the quizzes you see posted on your facebook feed. "Find out what kind of potato are you?" and if you wanted to know a user's name, ask a question like, "if one potato year is 10 human years how old are you now?". I mean ask the question disguised as something else, in this case a stupid joke. Ad-b…

But what are they going to do with this information if they can't show us ads based on them. Collect and target all you want, I am not seeing any ads. If 60-80% users does this, what will be the point of collecting data anymore.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#376

I find it very hypocritical of all these people who already have vested their shares in Facebook coming out and criticizing the company. As someone else mentioned on this thread, this is the guy who contributed to the concentration of all things social into Facebook by selling Whatsapp. I'm pretty sure most people are not fond of Facebook basically monopolizing people's private data and monetizing, but you don't get…

> As someone else mentioned on this thread, this is the guy who contributed to the concentration of all things social into Facebook by selling Whatsapp.

As mentioned nearby he apparently owned 20% of the shares so he may very well have been against it yet falling short on voting power.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you ssh into your own trusted openbsd system, run bitchx and connect to efnet, just like the good lord intended back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. i am only partially sarcastic here.

irssi

Back in my day we walked uphill to the vt100 terminal both ways, used ircII, and irssi didn't exist yet.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I must have missed the Mueller indictments relating to collusion or coordination of any kind (it's coming any day now, though, right?). I've seen a number of process charges. I've seen a handful of Russians charged with, essentially, social media ads and trolling and setting up a Michael Moore rally in NYC. And, of course, Manafort, who is dirty AF (right up there with the Podestas, the Clintons and the rest),…

> And, of course, Manafort, who is dirty AF (right up there with the Podestas, the Clintons and the rest), but nothing relating to the Trump campaign. Manafort served as Trump's Campaign manager from June 2016 to August 2016, but I guess that has nothing to do with Trump's Campaign. Created an account to attempt to derail this conversation into being about Seth Rich and Hillary Clinton. lol.

But your opponent is correct. Manafort indictment is about laundering money he made in Ukraine before 2014. It really has nothing to do with him being a campaign manager in 2016. Moreover, I bet this activities as a campaign manager were examined under microscope, and nothing shady was found, otherwise he would be indicted.

Lets stay rational and stick to facts.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#379

Random comment but I see so many people talking about regulation. Why do we want to hold the wolf by the ears here, continuing to use a service that doesn’t respect us while trying to force them to act like they do, when instead we could be advocating the use of user friendly services that truly respect our freedom? Why if Facebook has proven to be focused on things we don’t want (deep profiling), would you think any…

Cynically, it's beyond comprehension or willingness to learn for most. They'd rather complain to the Government than do something about it. Unfortunately, we've found ourselves in this situation. And why people look to the Government as some panacea of trust and integrity is beyond me.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#380
To repurpose what I was thinking of posting as an Nth-level comment, and leaving this long because I don't have time to shorten it (and because I'm trying to phrase it with so many preemption pieces that it won't immediately attract some kinds of detractors which I want to try to advance this argument beyond/around), yada yada:

Making it purely up to the individual to decide these things when they have to decide in a coordinated way or else connections break down results in unhappy situations. Right now, we have enough coordination anarchy in digital social networks that it leads to some combination of entrenchment, pseudorandomness, and fashion cycles (at least as far as I can see).

In the US, mail became a regulated monopoly, and the telephone network has regulation to try to give newcomers a better playing field and avoid capture effects (not that this always works—but things like “in this metro area, all ten digits must always be dialed so that the new numbers being introduced don't become the lower-class numbers that everyone fights to avoid anyway” have happened). Structure and usage regulations for physical shared community spaces have enough difference in focus and constraints that they don't seem to get applied the same way, and the localization and nature of enforcement mean they don't have the same kind of massive leverage. It is my strong suspicion that the lack of a single consensus “physics” in shared digital spaces (and attendant shared approach/instinct; cultural differences and training aside, human bodies have substantially similar baseline physical capabilities and constraints across the world) means that even with arbitrarily “benevolent” (whatever that means) government intervention, the idea of a level field doesn't work the same way to start with, and there's a panoply of little technical decisions that have “already been made” that combine to make things amazingly awkward on that level as well.

We've tried “just stop using it!” since Stallman started saying it ages ago, and it doesn't work in practice for a lot of people (“because not everyone does it!” is of course the exact coordination problem I'm calling out above). Regulation seems almost untenable from this position, at least assuming pace-of-advancement continues to be a serious concern and expectations haven't globally converged, though I wouldn't be surprised if some particularly fluid kind of regulation popped up (especially from the European sphere) that would break logjams better. What else can usefully be tried if we don't want to wind up in the Big Social hegemony world?

One that I rarely see is “capitulate in an accelerationist manner, let them become governments, and then push to make them good ones”—interesting as a thought experiment, but I wouldn't want to try to put that in practice from here. Can we extract useful information from that, though?

A related observation: to some extent, the success of Mastodon (within several communities I'm part of, enough so that I can use it as part of the primary “social network” set in the same way many people use Twitter and observe a lot of jumping ship there from Twitter along the way, even though in terms of absolute popularity it may still be far weaker) mimics what's been called the Amish-congregation government model to me (you are heavily bound by your choice of instance but it generally remains practical to switch), and instance leaders seem to be taking a much more active and community-centered role than Big Social allows. But that's still ultimately based enough on the Twitter model of interaction that there are lingering social problems (at least I find them to be problems) from that, and the currents of code changes are still a coordination/effort problem of their own, though that's partly mitigated by several instances running interesting forks already while leaving interoperability intact. I'll be very curious to see how that evolves.

Post reply on HN