Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except if the speed limit is 35, you need to drive 35. You can't drive 25 just to be more "defensive", that will get you a ticket.
Typically, no. There are some municipalities and areas of road where there is a minimum speed limit, but in the US, those are very rare. Granted, a law enforcement officer has wide jurisdiction to determine if you are 'safe' to drive and a low speed may become unsafe. But they are unlikely to ticket you and are more likely to try to help you out. Driving under the speed limit may be annoying, but it is nearly-univers…
Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
441–450 of 459 posts
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#442> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. The autonomous vehicle was speeding and made no attempt to decelerate given the sudden presence of an obstruction in its path? I would expect some kind of reaction from the car within…
> given the sudden presence of an obstruction in its path It doesn't even need to have been in its path; it should have detected a pedestrian near the edge of the road, concluded that they might step into the road (it's a possibility), and decelerated. Before she even stepped into the road, the Uber was at fault.
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
I came here to say the same, if a car ever hits a pedestrian the car is always at fault. Pedestrians follow the laws of physics, they don't just "come out of the shadows". It amazes me that Police could even think about issuing this statement, and also that people take it at face value. Guys, if you ever see a pedestrian in your path and you are not able to avoid them, you were driving too fast, simple as that. And I…
> if you ever see a pedestrian in your path and you are not able to avoid them, you were driving too fast, simple as that. That flies in the face of biology and physics. In the scenario where someone rapidly moves into the traffic from behind a parked car or some other visual obstruction: It takes up to 500ms for a human to take note (not react, just take note) of an obstacle, add reaction time to that and you'll arr…
Look, you can quote science, and studies, or you can talk to anyone who has a driver license. In case you yourself have one, then all I'm saying here should not be news to you, or unreasonable.
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is not true for any cohort. I think it is, for a pretty reasonable slicing of the data. Here[1] you can find a table on pages 33-34 that contains cause of death by age cohort - the 15-24 group has only a single row that beats motor vehicle accidents, and it is "accidents", which motor vehicle accidents is considered a subset of. I think part of the confusion from the table you linked to is that it doesn't cont…
> think it is, for a pretty reasonable slicing of the data. Here[1] You missed the reference. > group has only a single row that beats motor vehicle accidents, and it is "accidents", which motor vehicle accidents is considered a subset of. Right, but then you have to ask why? You might find a dataset which further breaks the cohort down into "Male" and "Female" categories; because when you do that, you'll see the dat…
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#445My takeaway from the comments in this thread: self-driving Ubers don't drive defensively, almost surely can't "read" pedestrian behavior, and even with lidar may never have seen Elaine Herzberg. Oh, and they speed. This sounds like straight out of the "hell" scenario for driverless cars: "we cannot accept responsibility for what happens to pedestrians and cyclists foolish enough to stray out of their designated safe…
I think you might be confusing "defensively" with perfectly. There are situations even defensive driving cannot prevent. For example, any car going 35 mph will need a few feet to brake if something jumps directly in front of it. Defensive driving just accounts for one's surroundings and likely outcomes. Seeing as the cars have been on the road in Arizona for a while, and this is the first we are hearing about a pedes…
But if you looked at the data (just numbers I've seen repeated a lot in this thread, heh), you'd find Uber's achieved 1 fatality after only around a couple million miles of driving. The average human being goes a hundred million miles between fatalities. Not a lot of data but so far Uber looks 50 times more dangerous than an average human driver. They have a lot of catching up to do
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
Typically, no. There are some municipalities and areas of road where there is a minimum speed limit, but in the US, those are very rare. Granted, a law enforcement officer has wide jurisdiction to determine if you are 'safe' to drive and a low speed may become unsafe. But they are unlikely to ticket you and are more likely to try to help you out. Driving under the speed limit may be annoying, but it is nearly-univers…
It's actually more dangerous as it forces other cars to change lanes to get around you.
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except if the speed limit is 35, you need to drive 35. You can't drive 25 just to be more "defensive", that will get you a ticket.
Typically, no. There are some municipalities and areas of road where there is a minimum speed limit, but in the US, those are very rare. Granted, a law enforcement officer has wide jurisdiction to determine if you are 'safe' to drive and a low speed may become unsafe. But they are unlikely to ticket you and are more likely to try to help you out. Driving under the speed limit may be annoying, but it is nearly-univers…
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
And conversely, those 4 million miles will (presumably) be highly biased to safe/above-standard driving conditions. As you've basically said, the human stats include all the very worst drivers in the full range of driving conditions, whereas the auto-cars not only have the very best driving conditions, but likely also have the statistical benefit of a likely number of cases where the human actually stepped in and upp…
Yes, so far the statistics we have about the safety of AI cars are mostly meaningless to say anything useful about how they would scale if applied universally. Another thing that bothers me is how often the argument 'human drivers are terrible, far worse than computers for situations A, B, C, etc' is used to suggest that AI systems will improve road safety. I will be the first to admit that many people are terrible d…
There's not enough emphasis on the strategy and skill of driving, and that's for the same reason, I think. We've tried so hard to make driving as basic as walking, someone anyone should easily be able to do, and that doesn't fit well with something that takes a long time to master, that you can always learn a little more about.
So instead there's a narrative that all a driver has to do is obey some cut and dry rules, stop at all stop signs, never drink and drive, always do exactly 5mph over the speed limit (or is it 10? or is it 4? 7? 0?), and if they do all that they can zone out and not worry about anything but what's right in front of them in the windshield.
No immediate source, but pretty sure I read somewhere the safety stats between the best and worst drivers is one or two orders of magnitude. And the above is why. The best drivers are playing chess, the worst drivers are playing checkers. The worst drivers look at the same playing board but ignore almost all the information and just stay zombie-like in their lane till they need to brake to avoid something or their GPS says time to turn.
I'm really curious how self-driving software approaches all this. I have a sad suspicion they're programmed from a naive rule-following non-defensive point of view but would love to be proven wrong.
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
My car has a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission). With cruise control enabled, going downhill, it will actually change the effective gear ratio and "downshift" automatically. (Once or twice when going downhill without cruise control, just using the brake pedal, it "downshifted" automatically while I had the brake pedal pressed. CVTs are computer controled and better than manual/standard for gas mileage, but with…
> but with the downaide that you can't tow heavy loads.) And the frustrating rubber-banding.
When it comes to accelerating and high RPM, I just don't mash the gas pedal down. By pressing the gas pedal on my car just enough, I can accelerate past other cars without high RPM just fine.
Gas pedal management is definately different with CVTs and other types of transmissions if you want a good driving experience.
Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you ever see a pedestrian in your path and you are not able to avoid them, you were driving too fast, simple as that. That flies in the face of biology and physics. In the scenario where someone rapidly moves into the traffic from behind a parked car or some other visual obstruction: It takes up to 500ms for a human to take note (not react, just take note) of an obstacle, add reaction time to that and you'll arr…
Pedestrians don't teleport in front of your car. It takes them time to cover the distance from the sidewalk to the middle of your lane. At the normal walking speed (3 mph) it takes 2.73 seconds to cover the width of a lane (12 feet). No matter how "out of the shadows" someone comes, no way that distance is less than 6 feet, that's 1.36 seconds. Situations where the distance a pedestrian has to cover to go from invisi…
The distance to travel in the parent’s situation is basically zero, and is incredibly common in most cities with a parking lane.