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Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

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Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#121

Post by ThrustVectoring »

There's at least two other trends that are, IMO, more to blame. SUVs in general for one, and the proliferation of particular mixed-use road antipattern.

SUVs is an easy one. When an SUV hits a bicyclist, motorcyclist, or pedestrian, the unfortunate person tends to go through rather than the over they'd be subjected to by a sedan. Motorcycle accident stats bear this out - the overall accident rate has gone down as people have started riding safer, but the fatality rate has gone up as SUVs have taken over market share.

The roads this is a bit more complicated, but basically roads need to either be slow enough to safely share space (25mph or below), separated out so that only cars can use it (freeways), or kill an alarming number of pedestrians and bicyclists. Four lanes and a 35 MPH speed limit with infrequent crossings is pretty much going to have a body count.

I'm not trying to excuse Uber here, just trying to maybe convince urban planners to stop building things that convince people to try to cross four lanes of traffic going 35 MPH.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#122

Post by toothbrush »

hndamien wrote: post #82
branchan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the woman suddenly walked in front of the car at the last minute, I don't see how the situation could have been avoided, no matter how fast a computer is able to process the information from the sensors. There was also a driver behind the wheel, so it would suggest that humans are just as clueless.

The fact that in most cases the human has to do nothing means that it is unlikely that the human is anywhere close to being as vigilante as an actual human driver. The fact that the human is clueless isn't surprising at all. In fact this is the real danger with systems like Tesla's autopilot. You still ned to be vigilante, but you are so bored that it is hard to be. The safety humans here might as well be hood orname…

The word you're looking for is "vigilant". "Vigilante" means "a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate".

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#123

Post by mindslight »

tzs wrote: post #54
DanBC wrote: post #8

> "It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode,” But it's made harder if you're speeding.

If the reported speed of 38 mph is correct it does not appear to have been speeding, unless most of the reports have the location wrong, or the speed limit has changed in the last 9 months. The nearest sign on the road it was on, for the direction it was traveling according to most reports, that it would have passed says that the speed limit is 45 mph [1]. That image is from July 2017. For the other direction it is 3…

If the reported location of not-Seattle is correct, then 38 in a 35 isn't speeding.

(disclaimer: I don't want to be defending Uber, I just don't see the need for the red herring)

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#124

Post by yazaddaruvala »

sudeepj wrote: post #17

I cannot imagine the detailed logging the engineers might have to do in such a system. When I code I wonder sometimes if I am logging unnecessary events at info level. This led to one more question. Do driverless cars have (or will have) a black box like that of aeroplane?

What we really need is for all of the logs from a company like Uber or Google to get streamed to some third party.

All of the logs are encrypted (with different keys), and only when an issue occurs, the company who owns the data gives the key for that particular car at that particular hour for decryption. Basically a data-escrow.

This way we know the logs are not being tampered with, and we keep the data hidden from the third party.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#125

Post by phyzome »

asdsa5325 wrote: post #108
etrautmann wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please no. You should not be required to carry a beacon in order to be safe walking around a city or crossing a street.

The woman who was hit ran across the road. It's easy to be safe: don't do that.

Am I supposed to get in a car to cross the street?

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#126

Post by sushisource »

sdrothrock wrote: post #107
danso wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a pretty clear fail. And yet the police were so quick to say that camera footage indicates that Uber was likely not at fault. It was so quick that it makes me inclined to think it's pretty obvious. However, after the SF Chronicle published its exclusive interview with the Tempe's chief of police, the Tempe Police PR person had to issue a statement that, "Tempe Police Department does not determine fault in ve…

> And yet the police were so quick to say that camera footage indicates that Uber was likely not at fault. I was surprised at that -- it doesn't seem to me that the police would have the technical knowledge of Uber's hardware and algorithms to categorically state that, let alone so quickly.

Well, if you saw that video and it really did show a So whether or not the police understand self-driving systems is not relevant to the fundamental physics problem. The key question is how long was the ped visible.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#127

Post by IncRnd »

sjg007 wrote: post #38
branchan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the woman suddenly walked in front of the car at the last minute, I don't see how the situation could have been avoided, no matter how fast a computer is able to process the information from the sensors. There was also a driver behind the wheel, so it would suggest that humans are just as clueless.

If I was driving a car and saw the pedestrian ahead of time walking or trying to cross I would have slowed down and changed lanes away fro them or at least moved far right if safe. Same thing when you pass bicycles. Change lanes away if possible or at the very least give more buffer. You can never tell what someone may do so you should anticipate the unexpected.

I haven't read the words "defensive driving" in any of the articles about this incident.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#130

Post by taneq »

qplex wrote: post #83
Someone wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”If the woman suddenly walked in front of the car at the last minute, I don't see how the situation could have been avoided” Likely, but not necessarily. Depending (hugely!) on what actually happened, it might be that the car should have started slowing down before the woman changed course. As an extreme example, if you’re driving at 50 mph and come up behind a kid cycling at the side of the road with a foot separati…

There definitely exists a sort of pre-cognitive human quality to traffic. Sometimes you just slow down on a subconscious hunch without any information on that particular situation. Or you might be very conscious not to slow down if you're driving a motorcycle in Asia in heavy traffic trying to make a turn with a huge truck barreling behind you. There are massive differences in road cultures between countries, and it…

It's referred to in the motorcycle community as 'Spidey Sense' - the way your subconscious picks up dangerous situations before you consciously become aware of them, giving you a chance to slow down and become more vigilant.
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