Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#331

Post by shellac » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

learnstats2 wrote: post #282

jakelazaroff wrote: post #8

Can we not let this become framed as a "breach"? No systems were compromised. Nothing of Facebook's was accessed that wasn't supposed to be accessed. This was data intentionally exposed by Facebook , just exfiltrated and given to an entity whom Facebook hadn't authorized. This is simply the extent to which we've permitted these Internet giants to collect information about us. It's business as usual. Edit: To clarify,…

It's an alleged legal breach of Data Protection principles. That language is used historically by the ICO in the UK to describe exactly this type of situation. Facebook's responsibilities and Cambridge Analytica's responsibilities towards data protection have been breached . There's no other useful word for that. It might not be a hack and it might not be a security vulnerability, but it is surely a breach.

Yes, in the words of the ICO:

> A personal data breach means a breach of security leading to the accidental or unlawful destruction, loss, alteration, unauthorised disclosure of, or access to, personal data. This includes breaches that are the result of both accidental and deliberate causes.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Most of the breaches I'm familiar with are accidental - people putting their research on thumb drives and losing them, etc etc.

Whether the fox gets into the chicken shed, or you let the chicken out of the safety of the shed, it's a breach of the chicken's security.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#332

Post by kamaal » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

hedonistbot wrote: post #258

malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

None of this would have come to light if the "right" person had won the elections. The moment Trump won, the campaign against social media began, first with the "Fake news" meme, then "Russian hacking", YouTube's adpocalypse and now "Facebook data breach". Some people are getting very scared that the traditional manufacturers of consent are losing their grip on people's minds. And I am not in support of the mass surv…

I don't think anybody is arguing against using data science in elections. What people are talking about is data theft, stealing private info(like emails, photos, etc) and stuff like that.

Its a bit like comparing withdrawing money from your bank account and robbing a bank.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#333

Post by hinkley » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

“I am shocked to learn that there is gambling going on in this establishment.” “Here are your winnings, sir”

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#334

Post by deft » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

CodeSheikh wrote: post #240

I see a lot of Facebook sympathizers here. Is this what devs do at Facebook? Browse HN and defend the reputation of Facebook at any cost? Yes we all knew what we were in for when we signed up for Facebook and Instagram. Yes, they can sell our data to show us ads about what coals to buy for July 4th bbq party and we are OK with that. But not to turn blind eye to foreign entities which in return use it against us and j…

lol, noticed the same thing. Sadly its not just Facebook doing it. Every time a company goes under fire there's a ton of comments defending them or saying how it's a necessary step etc. etc. Sometimes its the "famous" users here doing this, consistently for the same companies. Gonna guess they have invested in them but this kind of shilling is just stupid.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#335

Post by aylmao » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #114

intended wrote: post #104

Does anyone else have the wild speculation that Rupert Murdoch is opening a bottle of champagne today? The interest in FB and privacy, while gratifying, also seems focused through a particularly yellow lens. People on HN have also pointed out that it’s very likely that CA’a analytical prowess may well be overstated as part of submarine marketing efforts. I suppose many people are just surprised that this is taking of…

There is new fuel. Did you miss the video of the CEO of Cambridge Analytica bragging about how his company stole 200 elections around the world by lying and cheating and deceiving the public? With illegal methods abound? Lots of new fuel.

But specifically the way Facebook is being dragged to the center of the fire, even though there isn't really any new fuel on Facebook's side.

There's good reason for the media to be tense against Facebook right now, since Facebook has changed the news feed algorithm:

"traffic in the news category, which includes major news publishers The New York Times, Washington Post, CNN and BuzzFeed, was down 14 percent after a sharper drop in the months prior"

I do think Facebook should audit its 3rd party developers more closely and that this leak of data is terrible. Yet, imagine CA instead had built an app for a personality quiz and asked for a ton of permissions from your phone to track your location, harvest your contacts, etc. What else could Google/Apple have done?

[1]: https://digiday.com/media/promised-facebook-traffic-news-pub...

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#336

Post by hinkley » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #198

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your reaction is “they should have known” you are in a Silicon Valley thought bubble. (I was until recently, too.) What you find “horrifying” is that bubble’s edges fraying. What if your reaction isn't "they should have known" but rather "they should have listened when I told them this!"?

> What if your reaction isn't "they should have known" but rather "they should have listened when I told them this!"? Then you, like me, are still figuring out how to message privacy as a priority to non-technical folks. Maybe it’s an issue of timing. My “delete Facebook from your phone and log out, by default, on your desktop” pitch was more productive yesterday than ever before.

This is what many people would call a Teachable Moment. That rare opportunity when a person’s belief structures are shaken up enough that you can unstick their education by reintroducing and idea they previously resisted.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#337

Post by checkyoursudo » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

molszanski wrote: post #254

mattkevan wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a breach to me. The only difference is that instead of the baddies having to sneak in carefully at night to nick stuff, Facebook said 'welcome, come on in, help yourself – here's a sack'. The end result – millions of people having their personal data used against them without their knowledge or consent - is the same.

No, this is not a breach. Words still mean things.

"Words still mean things" is not an argument.

This can be a 'breach' by many of these definitions.[0][1][2]

You're basically saying, "Words only mean the things that I want them to mean, and if you try to use them a different way than I approve, then I will use this meme to try to shut you down."

Words fluctuate in meaning all the time. This may very well be the beginning of a new definition for breach, i.e., a social data breach, for example.

But we don't even have to go so far as to claim that this is a new meaning for breach. Any of these old definitions contains sufficient meaningfulness to make "Facebook loses control of data to unauthorized breach" perfectly intelligble.

[0] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/breach [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breach [2] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/breach

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#338

Post by aylmao » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

synchronist wrote: post #31

I made a Facebook web scraper which opens 20 headless browsers. You provide a list of unlimited usernames & proxies (you can buy them at https://buyaccs.com/en/ ). It will scrape every ounce of public information available. I acquired a few million users worth. The data is too easy to get.

Which kinda throws me off. It's no secret Facebook, Twitter, your phone (if you give permission to a 3rd party app) etc, are all harvestable. All CA is in regards to a story that broke a couple months ago. Why is it catching fire now?

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#339

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #175

scottmf wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever considered the possibility that many people actually are shocked? Why do “people love to pretend” that genuine outrage and the sincere desire to stop immoral practices doesn’t exist? Many people sincerely care about what’s right, even if they fall prey to human flaws and cognitive biases from time to time. Perhaps those who talk about how “everyone” just “loves to act like” x and “virtue signal” y are m…

That's even more sad. It would mean that even though they care deeply about outcomes, they either willfully ignore the things that result in those outcomes, or have amnesia, or are just incapable of doing anything about it. Take Congress for example. Approval ratings are what, 20%? They're generally seen to be corrupt, and they don't get anything done, right? So why aren't they voted out of office? Why are people sur…

> Take Congress for example. Approval ratings are what, 20%? They're generally seen to be corrupt, and they don't get anything done, right? So why aren't they voted out of office?

Because the average approval rating of individual members of Congress in their own district (for the House) or state (for the Senate) is much higher. For most people, it's (some large subset of) the 532 members of the Congress that they don't get to vote for that are the problem.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#340

Post by kimdcmason » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

amrx101 wrote: post #227

avoutthere wrote: post #47

How long before it comes out that Google does the same thing with search history, Amazon with product browsing, Apple with phone usage, and Microsoft with Windows 10 usage?

They are already doing it mate.

Citation needed.