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Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

theguardian.com

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Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#161

Post by sciurus »

0942v8653 wrote: post #144
simias wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks about mass surveillance programs like PRISM. I think most technical people expected something like that to exist ever since the internet became mainstream. Still, if it's just an "educated rumor" without hard evidence there's not much for the media to talk about. Up until now you could only say "it seems pretty likely that Facebook is doing something like that, but we don't know for…

> Some of my friends willingly opt into streaming their position in real time continuously through their smartphones How do you avoid this? I have a GPS in my car with stored routing information, but if I need to navigate for someone else or get walking/biking directions, I am forced to do this. Printing out directions beforehand is something I did only a few years ago, but these days I don't always have a chance to…

I think the person you are responding to is describing something different. If you use, e.g. Google Maps, to get directions while driving, Google knows where you are in real time but no one else does. If you share your location on e.g. Facebook Messenger, your friends can see where you are for the next hour. Presumably there are other apps which will share it continuously.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#162

Post by wuliwong »

jclardy wrote: post #137
simias wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks about mass surveillance programs like PRISM. I think most technical people expected something like that to exist ever since the internet became mainstream. Still, if it's just an "educated rumor" without hard evidence there's not much for the media to talk about. Up until now you could only say "it seems pretty likely that Facebook is doing something like that, but we don't know for…

I think the trust is a new thing though, new to the social media age. I remember growing up with computers in the 90's and people I knew wouldn't even consider entering a credit card number on a website. Now we give them freely. People used anonymous handles on AIM. At some point this changed and people decided they could be themselves on the internet, which is a fine idea, but the trust just went too far.

And I believe Facebook was largely the site that got people comfortable using their real names and personas online.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#163

Post by spacehome »

relyio wrote: post #36
freyir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so the quote [2004] isn't out of context: Zuckerberg: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS [Friend]: What? How'd you manage that one? Zuckerberg: People just submitted it. Zuckerberg: I don't know why. Zuckerberg: They "trust me" Zuckerberg: Dumb fucks

I'm sure you can do a better job at illustrating your point than ressucitating a +10y old quote from Zuck, 19 at the time. Teenagers and college students say a lot of condescending, dumb, immature stuff in group discussions. It's not news and no evidence at all.

It's the core of the business. I'm sure we'd all like to have more recent direct quotes, but Zuckerberg is much more careful with his public image than he used to be. We have to infer it from the actions of the company he controls. I see no evidence anything's changed besides the PR.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#164

Post by UncreativeCodar »

to_bpr wrote: post #132
loxs wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we censor words? Aren't we all adults here? Does HN have a policy about this?

We're adults here but that doesn't mean we should pursue a higher level of discourse. If you want cursing or other low content, there's always Reddit.

I know it's originally from a Zuckerburg quote but the point is that if you want to call someone a dumbfuck, call them a dumbfuck. Censoring the latter half doesn't somehow elevate the discourse.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#165

Post by smpetrey »

Well of course this was routine. Facebook prides itself on it's data collection and ad targeting. I'm not discounting The Guardian's reporting, but I thought this was known.

I mean you can download your data here and see what endpoints/interests you can be targeted on: https://www.facebook.com/help/302796099745838

Sadly, the world will continue to use Facebook and users will continue to be exploited.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#166

Post by 4684499 »

I'm OK with data harvesting, but, it has to be transparent and ask for permissions every time they want to use my data, allow me to delete the data I generated. It should always be opt-in.

I use google maps a lot. I search a place, it provides me lots of useful information. Yes, I find it helpful, but also terrifying, especially with the "Popular times" section, which is "based on visits to this place."

Where are the eyes? :/

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#167

Post by apotheothesomai »

flexie wrote: post #48
malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

"Parakilas, 38, who now works as a product manager for Uber, ..." So from one reckless company that doesn't give a damn about the law to the next. Who teaches developers that it's okay to work for anyone as long as the tech is cool and the salary is great?

Well, the reason is that people in general aren't often ethical, when they seek to benefit personally. It's not taught; it's the default setting.

I wish a little philosophy and ethics were part of the curriculum. This would not be to inculcate normative values, but to help eng students clarify what they believe, and what the implications are.

That said, most engineers I've met who work on sketchy stuff are either naive, apathetic, or suffer from massive cognitive dissonance.

The latter will too often regurgitate the self-justifying language of the business people in their companies.

Ever listen to ad tech people spew absurdities about people wanting to be engaged with "their" brands? How about the justifications for massive data collection and analysis - targeted ads are so much better for people. Pfft.

Then there are, say, NSA engineers who convince themselves that what they do is necessary, if illegal. That said, I saw a lot of NSA LinkedIn profiles that swapped out NSA for DoD a few years back.

Company leaders tend to hand employees ideas and the slogans to repeat to themselves and others. The internal spin is huge and insidious.

IMHO

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#168

Post by chapill »

simias wrote: post #24
malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks about mass surveillance programs like PRISM. I think most technical people expected something like that to exist ever since the internet became mainstream. Still, if it's just an "educated rumor" without hard evidence there's not much for the media to talk about. Up until now you could only say "it seems pretty likely that Facebook is doing something like that, but we don't know for…

Another educated rumor: As soon as Al Franken suggests regulating Facebook under Net Neutrality, pictures surface that destroy his political career.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#169

Post by [deleted] »

fredley wrote: post #5
malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

It's not a surprise to most readers of HN, but most people are not readers of HN, and take things at face value, where face value is what they see in advertisements and hear from their friends. People still have an expectation of privacy, even when, from an HN perspective they should be extremely skeptical about having such an expectation.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#170

Post by juliangoldsmith »

chapill wrote: post #168
simias wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks about mass surveillance programs like PRISM. I think most technical people expected something like that to exist ever since the internet became mainstream. Still, if it's just an "educated rumor" without hard evidence there's not much for the media to talk about. Up until now you could only say "it seems pretty likely that Facebook is doing something like that, but we don't know for…

Another educated rumor: As soon as Al Franken suggests regulating Facebook under Net Neutrality, pictures surface that destroy his political career.

What exactly would Net Neutrality do to Facebook?
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