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Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#111

Post by kazen44 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #59
wepple wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there was any exploit. My understanding is that a third-party app asked for access, and people gave consent, and CA mined data. I’m the last person you’d see defending FB, but this just seems like the same thing everyone has been doing on FB as a platform since FarmVille launched years ago?

I believe that's correct. People gave concent to X but Y used the data. Perhaps that's a violation of FB's ToS for apps? That said, (personal) data gets brokered all the time. And, btw, sometimes the buyers are gov agencies. Who needs surveillance when people willing hand it all over, often in public. Perhaps not the public will finally begin to understand why the phone meta data "intrusion" was so bad.

I guess the UK/EU will have a field day with this, considering the GDPR is in effect in a little less then 2 months.

Also, i wonder if this violates any political campaign laws aswell?

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#112

Post by HenryBemis »

bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

In my eyes, this phrase is the big problem:

"an all-too-natural consequence of Facebook’s business model"

And as long as FB is making billions out of this model, it will not change. The only think one can do is remove themselves from being the means to FB's profitability and leave the FB employees sharing their own data.

In a similar spirit, anyone who has my name & phone number in their contacts, when they decide to use any application that 'wants access to contacts' inherently performs the same violation of my private information.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#113

Post by ceejayoz »

ashman5 wrote: post #82
roadbeats wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of staying in contact only in Facebook ? If someone is important for me, I'd be in contact with them in real life or another platform. Also, lots of people seem to be unaware of that you can delete your Facebook account. They don't have a link to the delete page from settings menu though. It's here: https://facebook.com/account/delete

Page not found

It would be very Facebook-y to change that URL daily to break all the "how to delete your Facebook" tutorials that crop up.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#114

Post by capnrefsmmat »

bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

> And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil".

No. Zeynep Tufekci (the author of the article) has written about this for years, including a book about social media in political movements (Twitter and Tear Gas), a popular TED talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dy...), a series of New York Times op-eds, and more besides.

A more productive answer to someone saying something you agree with is “I agree”, not mistakenly berating them for not agreeing sooner.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#115

Post by fortythirteen »

bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

> Should we all just leave Facebook? That may sound attractive but it is not a viable solution.

Leaving not just Facebook, but Twitter, Instagram, and all other social media of its ilk is an extremely viable solution. It's like quitting smoking. For the first month or so you feel off-kilter, but, after a while, you can't imagine going back. Life is quantifiably better without it.

Realizing that I don't need up to the minute updates on literally everything has done amazing thing for my mental health in the last year.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#116

Post by mark_l_watson »

Better than average article about long term dangers posed by Internet super-companies like FB and Google. The author is a professor of information and library science.

The only way, I think, that we in the USA can solve this problem is to pass user rights and privacy laws similar to those in Europe. Given our corrupt political system this will be difficult but I think possible if enough individuals keep contributing to the EFF, ACLU, FSF, etc. It takes money to fight back.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#117

Post by dominotw »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #114
bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

> And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". No. Zeynep Tufekci (the author of the article) has written about this for years, including a book about social media in political movements ( Twitter and Tear Gas ), a popular TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dy...…

Timing is important. Oped and Ted talk is not the same as frontpage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-obama-campai...

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#118

Post by dominotw »

braythwayt wrote: post #100
harryf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course it is. It's the only solution. One viable alternative is legislation, such as the EU has been doing to some effect. Of course the laws lag the technology by some years and we have a wide range of political views on things like "the right to be forgotten" but more consumer protections seem to be needed, perhaps also factoring in "dumb" consumer behaviour e.g. not reading Terms & Conditions.

+1 Some things are impossible to solve by independant actors. Imagine trying to boycott cars in the 1940s because they were manifestly unsafe, or in the 1950s because they polluted the world with lead. Only legislation changed these things... albeit not enough. Same for workplace safety, child labour, and so on. Some systemic problems require systemic solutions.

Some ppl argue that legislation would strengthen Facebook and hurt competition.

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-gdpr-and-facebook-and-googl...

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#119

Post by developer2 »

moduspol wrote: post #81
mattbierner wrote: post #13

Seeking advice: how do I tell friends and family about the negative aspects of Facebook without coming across as all “I don’t even own a TV” or “meat is murder”? Is that even possible?

I'm not sure the negative aspects are considered that bad, even by people who know about them. I really think techie sites just have an overrepresentation of online privacy advocates that steer conversations in that direction. I think you'll have trouble not coming across that way because it almost inherently suggests your values (importance of the privacy of your data) are better than theirs (enjoying Facebook and t…

This is the truth. The average person does not care about data mining. It's a non-issue for them. And no, it's not a matter of intelligence, or that they need to be educated on the matter. Leave them be. Ignorance is bliss - in a positive sense.

If you're going to teach others anything about the perils of the internet, focus on the truly serious things: how to avoid phishing scams targeting bank accounts, fake virus warnings, etc. Everything else sounds like tinfoil hat material because, for most people, that's pretty much what it is.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#120

Post by mark_l_watson »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #114
bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

> And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". No. Zeynep Tufekci (the author of the article) has written about this for years, including a book about social media in political movements ( Twitter and Tear Gas ), a popular TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dy...…

Thanks for the video link. I am going to share that with friends and family who are sceptical that there is a problem with Internet super-companies collecting data and using it to change our behaviors to make money.
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