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Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

nytimes.com

321–330 of 436 posts

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are saying doesn't really add up. If the environment is really that hostile because Trump was elected, it should not be fostering movements like #MeToo. It should have crushed dissent. A wake up call doesn't lead to something like that. There has to be some positive factor being overlooked.

We're a constitutional republic, not an authoritarian regime regardless of how much current administration wishes otherwise. Good guys need villains, they need them to have purpose, to have focus. Without that ability to focus catalysts for change never amount to much.

The comment my above comment is replying to literally compares Trump's America to Nazi Germany. How useful was Hitler as a means to empower the oppressed by giving them a villain for their public narrative?

I am well aware that sometimes negative events can be a catalyst for positive change, that sometimes they cast light on the problem and make it visible. But comments here indicate that people long knew about, for example, Weinstein's bad behavior. It fostered jokes, not a groundswell of public outcry.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#322
post #7

> He has been overseeing the transfer of his security team to Facebook’s product and infrastructure divisions. His group, which once had 120 people, now has three, the current and former employees said. So with Stamos's departure/resignation, Facebook will have also reorganized its structure to not have a dedicated security team? Or at least one at the same level in the hierarchy as product and infrastructure?

This would be the correct way to read it is my impression. They've essentially folded their centralized technical risk management apparatus.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#323
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fact has me more confused than anything. What did most people think Facebook was doing... Keeping all the data locked away an never letting anyone make use of it? The interest in that data by political entities should have been especially obvious. Additionally, this information about Cambridge Analytica came out months ago. I remember first hearing about it on a podcast that was mostly focused on the personality…

Psychographic data (personalities and traits beyond simple demographics) has long been known and used before Facebook ever existed, it's just much easier now that so many people are feeding data to a centralized system with easy access. CA's CEO is seen presenting this clearly in 2016, specifically how well it helped the Cruz campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Dd5aVXLCc Worldview Standard has a podcast calle…

This is in some sense an extension of the Myers-Briggs-type personality typing, which in its early days also grew out of data analysis.

People use the Myers-Briggs typing at work because it helps you work with (read persuade) people.

So you can make an argument this is at least 100 years old.

As for why we've reached critical mass - it seems likely the ability to influence democratic elections, and the efforts by enemies of the Western world to use it to undermine democracy, are getting people to notice.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#324

People have been openly complaining about sexual impropriety in Hollywood for decades. There were comedic references to Harvey Weinstein [1] and Kevin Spacey [2] in shows like 30 Rock and Family Guy. Suddenly people started caring. What changed was the cultural moment of the 2016 election. Specifically with Cambridge Analytica and Facebook, the Mueller investigation may have taken a turn towards them in recent months…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16624800 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#325
Stamos has weighed in on twitter:

>Alex Stamos >Despite the rumors, I'm still fully engaged with my work at Facebook. It's true that my role did change. I'm currently spending more time exploring emerging security risks and working on election security. https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/975875310896914433

>To be clear, the security team has never been prevented or discouraged from investigating any Russian activity by any executives. >Josh Sternberg >The NYT reporting that Facebook Chief Information Security Officer, Alex Stamos, leaving the company. He lost the debate to Sandberg and other execs on investigating and disclosing Russian activity. …

https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/975926737111367680

The question in my mind is - what's the real story? You don't go from a team of 120 to a team of 3 for no reason, and Stamos hasn't denied that reporting.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#326

My greatest hope with all of the noise surrounding this, is that the engineers and employees at Facebook realize that Facebook and Zuckerberg’s vision does not line up with reality. Zuckerberg believes that Facebook will connect people and change the fabric of society and communities for good in a way that was heretofore impossible. Between Facebook’s political issues and the happiness-depressing effects of its use,…

Zuckerberg SAYS that. But I think we've all known CEOs who live in a reality distortion field. I'm not sure he believes that Facebook isn't a bad actor. But he has a ton of financial incentive to deny it's a bad actor.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#327
post #92
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the "breaches" and "abuses" aren't breaches or abuses, it's Facebook's business model working as intended.

This fact has me more confused than anything. What did most people think Facebook was doing... Keeping all the data locked away an never letting anyone make use of it? The interest in that data by political entities should have been especially obvious. Additionally, this information about Cambridge Analytica came out months ago. I remember first hearing about it on a podcast that was mostly focused on the personality…

There's a clear distinction between selling widgets based on however-detailed behavioral profiling, and influencing the results of elections.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#328

My greatest hope with all of the noise surrounding this, is that the engineers and employees at Facebook realize that Facebook and Zuckerberg’s vision does not line up with reality. Zuckerberg believes that Facebook will connect people and change the fabric of society and communities for good in a way that was heretofore impossible. Between Facebook’s political issues and the happiness-depressing effects of its use,…

For what it’s worth, I think YouTube is generally much more net positive than Facebook (especially if you stay out of the comments).

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po...

>YouTube, the Great Radicalizer

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/13/james-dam... >James Damore, Google, and the YouTube radicalization of angry white men

>James Damore, Google, and the YouTube radicalization of angry white men

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/prager-university >PragerU doesn’t disguise the fact that it is waging a war for young minds. Though the site’s videos are clinical, their cumulative function is to proselytize, and the language PragerU uses to describe its mission is religious.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think culturally we've accepted that political propaganda is different from run-of-the-mill corporate advertisement. Even the words we use are different: few people would call a TV spot "propaganda", even though both seek to influence people to act in a certain way. People understand and accept the concept and execution of advertisement. Propaganda is not received in the same way.

> Propaganda is not received in the same way. Nothing new here, seriously. Propaganda from both sides before elections has existed for as long as there were political debates and political campaigns. The fact that we have now systems to make Propaganda more targeted may make it more effective than before, but that's all. In the end, believing or not in Propaganda is the individual's responsibility.

Yes, but this is individually targeted propaganda, which is a relatively new thing.

Re: Facebook Security Chief Said to Leave After Clashes Over Disinformation

#330

My greatest hope with all of the noise surrounding this, is that the engineers and employees at Facebook realize that Facebook and Zuckerberg’s vision does not line up with reality. Zuckerberg believes that Facebook will connect people and change the fabric of society and communities for good in a way that was heretofore impossible. Between Facebook’s political issues and the happiness-depressing effects of its use,…

I don't disagree with these sentiments, but the hope that engineers/IT staff will leave is wishful thinking. I speak from my own experience which my differ from others in other industries/regions/countries but, I find people who work in tech to be generally dispassionate with regards to the downstream effects of their contributions. I think that's because: a) We're often small cogs ... b) ... working on often interes…

Thanks for sharing! I empathize with a lot of what you said. I wrote about my own challenges with ethics in software (and added your comment as a citation): https://www.nemil.com/musings/software-engineers-and-ethics....

While it may not affect current employees, I do think vivid stories like this make the allure of joining Facebook less compelling for the next generation of programmers. It also may influence just a few people in hot fields who have many opportunities to choose from (such as the top researchers in AI).

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