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Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

fortune.com

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Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#151

Post by danso »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #114
danso wrote: post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

Of course a self driving car should be able to speed. My understanding is that speed limits are set by measuring the speed people are driving on the road and then determining a speed at which roughly 15% of the drivers are exceeding that limit. There is an expectation that people will speed, but by setting the speed limit a little bit lower almost all traffic will fall under safe bounds. Driving 38 in a 35 zone is co…

Talking about a future in which AVs are allowed to go as fast as physically possible seems irrelevant when we're talking about current policy and infrastructure, in which AVs have to live in a world with majority manually-operated vehicles, driven by people who do speed, but are also punished for going over the speed limit.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#153

Post by viraptor »

blakesterz wrote: post #13

> “The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” Moir said. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” I don't know if that is supposed to make anyone feel better about this, if anything it makes it seem worse. I thought one of the big benefits of these systems was they were supposed to be better at exactly these kinds of situations? More like "autonomous cars a…

> More like "autonomous cars are better than people at stopping in a flash" rather than "just like people this car didn't stop in a flash".

It's a single example. You can't extrapolate to better or worse from it. A self driving system better than people by 2 orders of magnitude will still kill people. But that's neither a comfortable thought, nor something media will get used to over the next decade or so.

This specific car shouldn't matter outside of engineering analysis, which is happening now. What should matter for others is a good statistic over millions of miles.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#154

Post by goshx »

portofcall wrote: post #149
goshx wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the police determine that a vehicle "made no attempt to stop" today, without video and sensor data?

I don’t know, but made no attempt to stop is according to the police . Uber’s self-driving car was traveling at a speed of 40 mph when it struck a 49-year-old woman in Arizona Sunday night, and did not show significant signs of slowing down, police said today. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17140936/uber-self-drivin... If you’re saying that the whole “blame it on the homeless lady” routine is premature the im wit…

Yes, I think it is premature. What I am trying to say is that I don't think the police used the proper data from the car to give the results. If they were looking for break marks from the tires on the road, for instance (I have no idea what method they use), that doesn't necessarily mean the car wasn't breaking.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#155

Post by freehunter »

danso wrote: post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

It may not be programmed to speed per se, but if you’ve ever had cruise control turned on you’ll know it doesn’t keep you exactly at 55mpg. It might be 54 with the throttle applied to speed up, or it might be 57 which doesn’t trigger the brakes yet but is coasting to a slower speed.

Imagine the car in front of you cycling rapidly between the gas and brake pedal to keep the speed exactly at 55mph. One, that’s completely impossible with how cars are designed, and two that’s really illogical. Cars have to follow the laws of physics too.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#156

Post by tzs »

goshx wrote: post #144
portofcall wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the police had the records from the car’s system. With all due respect, then why are they using their bully pulpit to blame this woman for her death at this early stage? The vehicle made no attempt to stop, which seems worrying if the sensors and algorithms were working as intended, so maybe it would be worth looking at those systems.

How does the police determine that a vehicle "made no attempt to stop" today, without video and sensor data?

Where the skid marks start (if there are skid marks at all), probably. Witness reports might help, too.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#157

Post by benwilber0 »

GhostVII wrote: post #70
tathougies wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you see, this is a computerized car. Whereas for a human, there is gauge observation error, there’s really no excuse for a machine, especially a machine who has our lives in its hands

But, in the US at least, the speed of traffic will be much faster than the speed limit, so driving the limit is unsafe.

Driving the speed limit is never unsafe. And especially not in a residential area 35 MPH zone.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#158

Post by in_cahoots »

franciscop wrote: post #130
naveen99 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What speed would you drive if there was no speed limit ?

What speed would you drive? Would you take close corners at 120km/h? People (on average) drive at the speed their actually very well tuned survival instinct tells them to.

I don’t think that’s true at all (though I only have my own experience to go off of). I tend to use the speed limit as a point of reference, and then drive a little above it. Prior experience has told me that going the speed limit plus some percentage ‘feels’ safe. If there were no speed limit I’d actually have to pay more attention to the road and surrounding environment to determine what a safe speed is. Right now most people’s ‘survival instinct’ is basically speed limit + some delta in clear conditions. That delta may change from driver to driver, but in general everyone drives within 10-20% of the speed limit.

As a fun thought experiment, imagine what would happen if your residential speed limit were raised from 25mph to 70mph. People may not hit the 70mph limit, but I can almost guarantee that the average speed would increase significantly, perhaps even dangerously in some cases. I don’t have much faith in people’s ability to judge space and speed accurately, particularly when they aren’t used to doing so. And this includes myself.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#159

Post by cjensen »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #150
astro_robot wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, there just seems to be so many things that aren't adding up yet. The news footage also showed a damaged bicycle but there is not mention of a cyclist in the article. I hope they release footage soon.

There was mention of her walking her bike.

Which means she wasn't moving quickly.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#160

Post by hamandcheese »

jcranmer wrote: post #89
drewg123 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not speeding would cause it to impede traffic flow. Speed limits are often set for revenue generation, not safety.

On a 35 mph road with no traffic to impede, there is no reason to speed.

There is always a reason to speed: getting from point A to point B faster.
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