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Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

fortune.com

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Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#121

Post by inverse_pi »

blakesterz wrote: post #13

> “The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” Moir said. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” I don't know if that is supposed to make anyone feel better about this, if anything it makes it seem worse. I thought one of the big benefits of these systems was they were supposed to be better at exactly these kinds of situations? More like "autonomous cars a…

Here's what my hypothesis: when it's physically impossible to stop (which sounds like it was the case, car moving at 38mph and you have a split second), my hypothesis is that the robot would plan to swerve around the obstacle instead of trying to stop. But the car can't turn 90 degrees immediately either so that could also be dynamically infeasible, but maybe it has higher probability to avoid the collision?

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#122

Post by jakeogh »

mattigames wrote: post #93
jakeogh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I am constantly scanning for people near the edge of the road and anticipating their movements. I bet most of us have had the experience where someone stepped out unexpectedly but you already took action because you could tell they were not paying attention. Good luck programming that.

Yeah there are a lot of subtleties that are hard to program; that's why it must be extremely effective on things that _can_ be programmed such as quick breaking, quick steering; prefer lanes that are farther away from pedestrians near-by, beep when entering a non-illuminated zone and hundreds of other details.

I don't think it will work. Instead the failing effort will be cover to add more and more rules in an attempt to hide the obvious while blaming the victim(s) for breaking the rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEIn8GJIg0E

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#123

Post by abadaba »

CydeWeys wrote: post #61
benwilber0 wrote: post #14

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. The autonomous vehicle was speeding and made no attempt to decelerate given the sudden presence of an obstruction in its path? I would expect some kind of reaction from the car within…

For some reason I'm not at all surprised to learn that Uber programmed their vehicles to speed. Of course they did. This is literally "move fast and break things" at work.

Studies have shown that the rate of driving accidents is minimized when a vehicle travels at the same speed as other vehicles on the road. This means that in many cases, “speeding” with the flow of traffic provides the safest outcome. Although in the case of this accident, it appears that there was no surrounding traffic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#124

Post by naveen99 »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #114
danso wrote: post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

Of course a self driving car should be able to speed. My understanding is that speed limits are set by measuring the speed people are driving on the road and then determining a speed at which roughly 15% of the drivers are exceeding that limit. There is an expectation that people will speed, but by setting the speed limit a little bit lower almost all traffic will fall under safe bounds. Driving 38 in a 35 zone is co…

What speed would you drive if there was no speed limit ?

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#125

Post by morogop »

blakesterz wrote: post #13

> “The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” Moir said. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” I don't know if that is supposed to make anyone feel better about this, if anything it makes it seem worse. I thought one of the big benefits of these systems was they were supposed to be better at exactly these kinds of situations? More like "autonomous cars a…

Don't trash all the systems based on Uber's system.

I bet my mercedes would've jammed on the brakes. I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that Mercedes' "driver assists" are safer than Uber's stolen garbage.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#127

Post by noonespecial »

At some level, at some time, we're going to have to come to terms with the fact that these machines can be dangerous in certain ways. Probably ways that are slightly different than human controlled machines. Maybe safer on the whole. But certainly different.

Cars have been a menace for a century. We accept and adapt.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#128

Post by rdiddly »

aetherson wrote: post #51
rdiddly wrote: post #37

Just to continue my line of unpopular opinions about this: whoever chooses to put a car on the road instead of traveling in a way that hurts others less (walking, transit, bike), is responsible at least in part for any damage, injury or death, just by being there. How many people die by wandering out in front of somebody else walking along? Nobody even has to call a cop, much less determine whose fault it was, becaus…

Do you also believe that long haul trains are inherently immoral, given that they are more likely to cause bystander injuries/death than airplanes?

Who said anything about morality? I'm talking about responsibility. Nice attempt to misrepresent my viewpoint. I call foul. Responsibility lies with you, friend, not the machine. Besides, how many trains and planes do you pilot daily? Also a train, unlike a car, is not a frivolous convenience operated by a privileged individual who has several other less-objectionable choices available for the purpose. And ironically if everybody got out of cars and onto trains they would actually be cutting the danger to others by a large factor.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#129

Post by monkpit »

stefan_ wrote: post #63
rory096 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>before anyone has even downloaded the recordings The second paragraph of the article states "video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself."

It's video footage from cameras at night! Of course on the footage the victim comes from the shadows because cameras become notoriously useless at night when you still want to hit reasonable framerates (and you do). That's why that thing has a very expensive LIDAR on top.

The point of that persons comment was that you asserted nobody has looked at videos. Clearly they have.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#130

Post by franciscop »

naveen99 wrote: post #124
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a self driving car should be able to speed. My understanding is that speed limits are set by measuring the speed people are driving on the road and then determining a speed at which roughly 15% of the drivers are exceeding that limit. There is an expectation that people will speed, but by setting the speed limit a little bit lower almost all traffic will fall under safe bounds. Driving 38 in a 35 zone is co…

What speed would you drive if there was no speed limit ?

What speed would you drive? Would you take close corners at 120km/h? People (on average) drive at the speed their actually very well tuned survival instinct tells them to.
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