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Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

fortune.com

111–120 of 459 posts

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#111

I don't want to hear any officer's opinion on this until the video and radar is publicly released. It's unclear on what evidence the officer bases this account of events.

Second paragraph: > Chief of Police Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the vehicle. How is that unclear?

It's unclear, because no facts are presented just someone's interpretation of some camera footage that isn't shown.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#112
post #82
post #42

>speeding >didn't engage breaks Definitely gives me confidence in self-driving cars, at least she "may have been homeless" so I can sleep easy tonight. Thanks Uber and Tempe!

>speeding >didn't engage breaks >not ubers fault one of these things is not like the other. The basic expectation is that if people are on the edge of a roadway you slow down and pay more attention. What exactly was the person in the drivers seat doing?

What exactly was the person in the drivers seat doing?

Nothing, because the car was clearly supposed to be driving itself.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#113
post #10

This is just police standard operating procedure. In any kind of manslaughter where a vehicle is involved, save on paperwork and blame whichever party ended up dead before the driver has even spoken the words "she came from nowhere". Here is the police chief spelling it out for Uber: she came from the shadows I wonder what that LIDAR thinks about the shadows . I mean, this system is in place because everybody drives…

You aren't kidding about it being standard operating procedure. Almost every time a pedestrian or cyclist is killed in New York City, the police come out and blame anyone but the driver. And then video will turn up afterwards showing that the driver was driving unsafely, and that the fatal accident could have been avoided. Still, no charges are filed. It's like they have an allergy to paperwork. I want to see video o…

I wasn't saying that in jest or exaggerating for dramatic effect. It's simply reality that today, unless you are drunk or high, you can kill someone who is walking in a crosswalk with your vehicle and get away with not even a ticket:

https://twitter.com/KeeganNYC/status/530515713405231105

Afterwards, police will, as in this case, make up a story how "the little kid broke free from its grandma" and decline to charge.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#114
post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

Of course a self driving car should be able to speed. My understanding is that speed limits are set by measuring the speed people are driving on the road and then determining a speed at which roughly 15% of the drivers are exceeding that limit. There is an expectation that people will speed, but by setting the speed limit a little bit lower almost all traffic will fall under safe bounds. Driving 38 in a 35 zone is completely reasonable. I probably would have been going 45 - 50 if the road was empty. If self driving cars aren't allowed to speed, they're going to be a nightmare for passengers and other drivers. Obviously different people have different feelings about the issue of speeding, but personally I lose my mind when I get an Uber driver that's driving to slow. Try and think about what it would be like if a computer followed every traffic restriction to the letter of the law rather than driving like an actual human.

People will vote me down because the idea of a speeding self driving car sounds scary, but I personally can't wait until the software has advanced to the state that it can confidently drive 200 mph on the 5 from LA to the Bay Area. (Presumably they'd have to build a much bigger better 5, with special lanes dedicated to autonomous vehicles)

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#115
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is data to be reviewed, that’s your best bet against someone who was not even there.

There is data...in the form of a video taken by the car that hit her . You don't need a team of PhDs to watch it and make a judgment call.

What about the other sensor data? Did the police watch the LIDAR pointclouds and the RADAR maps too? Or are they basing their judgement on only one sense input? Seems to be the latter which means they're spouting off without knowing what they're talking about.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#116
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>speeding >didn't engage breaks >not ubers fault one of these things is not like the other. The basic expectation is that if people are on the edge of a roadway you slow down and pay more attention. What exactly was the person in the drivers seat doing?

What exactly was the person in the drivers seat doing? Nothing, because the car was clearly supposed to be driving itself.

The car didn't have a driver's license. The driver did, regardless of the amount of assistance provided by the car. What is troubling is that the breaks were never applied.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#117
post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

This is probably less the case with self-driving cars, as I imagine they're using pretty new or well-maintained vehicles, but there's usually a 5mph leeway with speed limits due to slightly mis-calibrated speedometers. I anecdotally remember hearing this being the reason for speed limits that end in "5" rather than being multiples of 10.

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/40113/do-any-stat...

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#118

There's going to be a bunch of these "OMG a robot car hit someone!!!" stories that then morph into "the robot actually had nothing to do with it." Perhaps it will finally cue people in to how intrinsically dangerous cars are. I mean, even if autonomous cars are x100 times safer to be around than human-driven cars, they're still orders of magnitude more of a risk factor for ordinary (U.S.) citizens than say, terrorist…

Yes. And on HN the first article will get artificially removed from the front page by the owners of the site, and the second article will get artifically boosted onto it.

Also, it'll be a long-ass time before Uber's half-assed bullshit will be as safe as a human driver. Only deeply fucking stupid people trust Uber on this one.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#119

I didn't notice it mentioned in this piece, but a different article on HN is suggesting she may have been homeless and was crossing where there was no crosswalk. Homeless individuals frequently sleep under bridges, on the sides of off ramps and other infrastructure near highways. They are often walking where no pedestrian should be at all. I would like to see the affordable housing crisis solved. Currently, there are…

That intersection isn't really. There's an overpass over Mill that she may well have lived under. In that case, it would not be well lit at all.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm imagining this scenario correctly, I've experienced it tons of times and never seen traffic slow down. It's a road with a median and a person attempting to cross the road has temporarily stopped in the median waiting for a break in traffic so they can cross. Maybe I've just lived in 2 crazy states, or maybe I'm not imagining this scenario correctly, but I can't recall ever having seen traffic slow down for thi…

Traffic might not slow down, but I'd definitely keep an eye out for the person in the median.

Unless you were texting while driving, changing a song, eating, talking with a passenger, or talking on the phone (even handsfree).

Or, it was dark, your (night) vision isn't the best - but passes the drivers test, or you were tired.

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