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Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

fortune.com

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Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#81

Post by ronilan »

danso wrote: post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

There can be several ways to explain this but generally speaking you are right.

It shouldn’t go over the speed limit, and under no circumstances should it take the liberty drivers usually take of being within 10% above the limit.

I hope no one wrote it that way.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#82

Post by Steeeve »

hnaccy wrote: post #42

>speeding >didn't engage breaks Definitely gives me confidence in self-driving cars, at least she "may have been homeless" so I can sleep easy tonight. Thanks Uber and Tempe!

>speeding

>didn't engage breaks

>not ubers fault

one of these things is not like the other.

The basic expectation is that if people are on the edge of a roadway you slow down and pay more attention. What exactly was the person in the drivers seat doing?

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#83

Post by tzs »

fthssht wrote: post #46
halflings wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody jumped in front of the car at the last second, it would be physically impossible to break in time. I assume what people mean by "stopping in a flash" is closer to taking the right actions faster (e.g 40ms vs 800ms) when there's still a chance of changing the outcome.

800ms is pretty slow for a sober human I think https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/statistics

800ms looks like it is actually pretty fast for a sober human driving [1]:

"This study examined the effect of brake and accelerator pedal configuration on braking response time to an unexpected obstacle. One hundred subjects drove in the Dynamic Research, Inc. (DRI) Interactive Driving Simulator through a simulated neighborhood 21 times, each time with a different pedal configuration. Each subject was presented with an unexpected obstacle only one time, for one of three previously selected pedal configurations, to which he or she was instructed to brake as quickly as possible. Foot movements were recorded with a video camera mounted above the pedals. Data were analyzed manually, using time and course location information superimposed on the video data. Response times were analyzed using ANOVA to determine effects of pedal configuration and various driver factors. Response times ranged from 0.81 sec to 2.44 sec with a mean of 1.33 sec and a standard deviation of 0.27 sec. There was no significant effect of pedal configuration on response time. Driver age was significant, with increased age corresponding to increased response time. Car normally driven, gender, driver height, and shoe size had no significant effect"

[1] "Braking Response Times for 100 Drivers in the Avoidance of an Unexpected Obstacle as Measured in a Driving Simulator"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274973324_Braking_R...

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#84

Post by Consultant32452 »

jcranmer wrote: post #71
Consultant32452 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm imagining this scenario correctly, I've experienced it tons of times and never seen traffic slow down. It's a road with a median and a person attempting to cross the road has temporarily stopped in the median waiting for a break in traffic so they can cross. Maybe I've just lived in 2 crazy states, or maybe I'm not imagining this scenario correctly, but I can't recall ever having seen traffic slow down for thi…

Traffic might not slow down, but I'd definitely keep an eye out for the person in the median.

True, but you also might not have time to react and hit the brakes if someone darts out in front of you.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#85

Post by maxander »

There's going to be a bunch of these "OMG a robot car hit someone!!!" stories that then morph into "the robot actually had nothing to do with it." Perhaps it will finally cue people in to how intrinsically dangerous cars are.

I mean, even if autonomous cars are x100 times safer to be around than human-driven cars, they're still orders of magnitude more of a risk factor for ordinary (U.S.) citizens than say, terrorists, or sharks.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#86

Post by francisofascii »

jdoliner wrote: post #29
alexandercrohde wrote: post #18

I don't want to hear any officer's opinion on this until the video and radar is publicly released. It's unclear on what evidence the officer bases this account of events.

Second paragraph: > Chief of Police Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the vehicle. How is that unclear?

Well, was she already walking in road where the car should have had time to stop or did she walk in front of the vehicle at the last second? Did the car make an effort to evade?

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#87

Post by portofcall »

dexterdog wrote: post #56
portofcall wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the speeding vehicle didn’t even attempt to stop. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17140936/uber-self-drivin...

Can we please stop calling 38 in a 35 speeding? In many places that speed would be inpeding traffic.

In most places the driver isn’t an experimental automated vehicle. Maybe while trying new tech that can apparently fail to see a woman with LIDAR, stick to the damned speed limit? That seems fair to me.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#88

Post by telchar »

dexterdog wrote: post #56
portofcall wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the speeding vehicle didn’t even attempt to stop. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17140936/uber-self-drivin...

Can we please stop calling 38 in a 35 speeding? In many places that speed would be inpeding traffic.

I've seen people charged with a misdemeanor for going 5 over the limit where noone was harmed. If a human can be held to that standard I think a self-driving car should in the case of a fatal collision.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#89

Post by jcranmer »

drewg123 wrote: post #78
danso wrote: post #52

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless. I know this isn't the most pertinent issue here, but I'm surprised the self-driving AI is allowed to speed , though with further research, th…

Not speeding would cause it to impede traffic flow. Speed limits are often set for revenue generation, not safety.

On a 35 mph road with no traffic to impede, there is no reason to speed.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#90

Post by cloakandswagger »

goshx wrote: post #79
cloakandswagger wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think the opinion of the police is relevant in a homicide? The opinion of people who have investigated hundreds if not thousands of similar accidents? Who meets your criteria for expertise on saying whether the car could have stopped or not? Uber?

If there is data to be reviewed, that’s your best bet against someone who was not even there.

There is data...in the form of a video taken by the car that hit her. You don't need a team of PhDs to watch it and make a judgment call.
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