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Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

fortune.com

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Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#61

Post by CydeWeys »

benwilber0 wrote: post #14

> According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. The autonomous vehicle was speeding and made no attempt to decelerate given the sudden presence of an obstruction in its path? I would expect some kind of reaction from the car within…

For some reason I'm not at all surprised to learn that Uber programmed their vehicles to speed. Of course they did. This is literally "move fast and break things" at work.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#62

Post by vvanders »

fthssht wrote: post #46
halflings wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody jumped in front of the car at the last second, it would be physically impossible to break in time. I assume what people mean by "stopping in a flash" is closer to taking the right actions faster (e.g 40ms vs 800ms) when there's still a chance of changing the outcome.

800ms is pretty slow for a sober human I think https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/statistics

That's with people expecting to click, ~500ms is more realistic for a scenario where you need to recognize, decide and react.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#63

Post by stefan_ »

rory096 wrote: post #38
stefan_ wrote: post #10

This is just police standard operating procedure. In any kind of manslaughter where a vehicle is involved, save on paperwork and blame whichever party ended up dead before the driver has even spoken the words "she came from nowhere". Here is the police chief spelling it out for Uber: she came from the shadows I wonder what that LIDAR thinks about the shadows . I mean, this system is in place because everybody drives…

>before anyone has even downloaded the recordings The second paragraph of the article states "video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself."

It's video footage from cameras at night! Of course on the footage the victim comes from the shadows because cameras become notoriously useless at night when you still want to hit reasonable framerates (and you do).

That's why that thing has a very expensive LIDAR on top.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#64

Post by Consultant32452 »

benwilber0 wrote: post #33
friedman23 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3mph above the speed limit

That is speeding and also the car was inattentive to potential hazards outside of its vision. Normal human drivers slow down when they see a wild lady on the median looking like she might dart into the road. Normal people slow down when there are kids playing with a ball on the sidewalk. Do these cars do that? Do they even drive the speed limit? edit: Also accidentally killing someone with your car because of minor s…

If I'm imagining this scenario correctly, I've experienced it tons of times and never seen traffic slow down. It's a road with a median and a person attempting to cross the road has temporarily stopped in the median waiting for a break in traffic so they can cross. Maybe I've just lived in 2 crazy states, or maybe I'm not imagining this scenario correctly, but I can't recall ever having seen traffic slow down for this situation.

It's possible to believe that the sensors/AI failed (no braking) while also acknowledging that the vehicle/driver is not at fault for the death. I suspect that may ultimately be the case here.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#65

Post by [deleted] »

Trundle wrote: post #53
fthssht wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800ms is pretty slow for a sober human I think https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/statistics

Isn't that linking to the results of people playing a game where they're paying attention and looking for something to react to?

[deleted]

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#66

Post by goshx »

portofcall wrote: post #27
showerst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A X,000lb car going 38mph takes a certain amount of time and distance to stop, even with a perfect reaction time. If she really did step out in front of the car with less than that distance to spare, than there wasn’t much to be done, sadly.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17140936/uber-self-drivin... The brakes didn’t even start to engage. Just how fast do you think this woman moved exactly?

If she was behind another parked car and stepped in front of the car that hit her, she could have been at a normal walking pace. The police stated that the car did not show signs of slowing down before the accident. I doubt the police had the records from the car’s system.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#67

Post by jakeogh »

blakesterz wrote: post #13

> “The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” Moir said. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” I don't know if that is supposed to make anyone feel better about this, if anything it makes it seem worse. I thought one of the big benefits of these systems was they were supposed to be better at exactly these kinds of situations? More like "autonomous cars a…

Personally, I am constantly scanning for people near the edge of the road and anticipating their movements. I bet most of us have had the experience where someone stepped out unexpectedly but you already took action because you could tell they were not paying attention. Good luck programming that.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#68

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #40
pishpash wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arizona is in bed with Uber on this, they were enthusiastic about getting this on the road, so political cover is much needed. I read this like a joint press release by the Governor and Uber.

Your comments on this heated topic stand out as being particularly unsubstantive and flamebaity. Could you please not do that here? It isn't just that they're bad comments for HN, it's that they encourage worse. If you'd (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart when commenting here, we'd appreciate it.

[deleted]

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#69

Post by CydeWeys »

jdoliner wrote: post #29
alexandercrohde wrote: post #18

I don't want to hear any officer's opinion on this until the video and radar is publicly released. It's unclear on what evidence the officer bases this account of events.

Second paragraph: > Chief of Police Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the vehicle. How is that unclear?

How is it unclear that the person you're responding to wants to see the video and LIDAR data, not just take someone's word for it? "Potentially shifts the blame" as hearsay isn't good enough.

Re: Police Say Uber Is Likely Not at Fault for Self-Driving Car Fatality in Arizona

#70

Post by GhostVII »

tathougies wrote: post #55
friedman23 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3mph above the speed limit

But you see, this is a computerized car. Whereas for a human, there is gauge observation error, there’s really no excuse for a machine, especially a machine who has our lives in its hands

But, in the US at least, the speed of traffic will be much faster than the speed limit, so driving the limit is unsafe.
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