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The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

independent.co.uk

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Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#71

Post by ninkendo »

ahoka wrote: post #47
guelo wrote: post #3

Some regulation I'd like to see for social network ads, at least for political ads: - Make all ads publicly viewable along with the targeting demographics. So everybody can see, for example, that a politician is pushing xenophobia to older people. - Some kind of ad "fake news" score associated with a campaign. This one is difficult, but I could imagine a score based on a mixture of "fake news scoring providers" from…

How about simply banning targeted advertisement? It's clearly toxic to society.

Facebook would cease to exist.

I love it! Where do I sign the petition?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#72

Post by philwelch »

fny wrote: post #42
mattmcknight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Faceb…

This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the…

> It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the purpose of winning an election.

So...politics?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#73

Post by enraged_camel »

weego wrote: post #70
enraged_camel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. You say that as someone who frequents HN. Collectively we are probably the top 0.2% of the population in terms of technology awareness and know-how, to the point where we probably easily recognize this type of propaganda (then again, maybe not!) and understand how it works. The same cannot be said for the overwhelming majority of the p…

"We're smart enough to not fall for it but the proles stand no chance" doesn't pass the smell test as anecdotal evidence. What they are doing is what marketing people have done for years, only we know from years of data and experience that these "profile and target" ad campaigns are barely above baseline for RoI. The classic one is people who move house are more likely to go on to buy a new car in 12-24 months so the…

>>"We're smart enough to not fall for it but the proles stand no chance" doesn't pass the smell test as anecdotal evidence.

That's why I said "then again, maybe not".

>>What they are doing is what marketing people have done for years, only we know from years of data and experience that these "profile and target" ad campaigns are barely above baseline for RoI.

This is completely irrelevant in the current context, because for people with deep pockets, the ROI of a single project doesn't matter if it leads to huge gains further down the line.

Case in point: CA is owned by the Mercers, who just got a huge tax cut thanks to Trump.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#74

Post by mattmcknight »

fny wrote: post #42
mattmcknight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Faceb…

This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the…

My point was not that it was good. My point was that it was very similar, but still a little different in terms of the app, to what the Obama campaign, and to a lesser effective extent, the Romney campaign did in 2012.

My second point is that advertising, to include political advertising tends to be manipulative. So many ads are deceptive, so many play on fear. I do agree that populist messages around the world tend to be simplistic, but that is more of a criticism of political advertising in general than anything specific to this campaign.

I am not convinced this use of Facebook was more effective than a typical ad targeting operation. While the people involved may have had other aspects of the operation that were more sinister, the surprise at how Facebook and ad targeting works has been widely reported in the last election. The extreme response to these events seems to be more about who was elected than how.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#75

Post by mattmcknight »

bigiain wrote: post #56
randomname2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A former Obama campaign official is claiming that Facebook knowingly allowed them to mine massive amounts of Facebook data — more than they would’ve allowed someone else to do — because they were supportive of the campaign. In a Sunday tweet thread, Carol Davidsen, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama for America, said the 2012 campaign led Facebook to “suck out the whole social graph” and tar…

It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit - this is _clearly_ un-democratic. What country is going to come to The US's aid and send in troops to "restore democracy"?

How is ad targeting undemocratic?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#76

Post by rimliu »

canjobear wrote: post #61
fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

Is there any evidence that Cambridge Analytica's targeted manipulation techniques were effective?

Trump and Brexit?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#77

Post by lulmerchant »

fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

>but it's now blatantly clear to me that he deliberately used authoritarian tactics to win the election.

How on earth is such a baseless comment voted to the top of this thread? The truth is that this is a scandal, only because it involves Trump.

Pretty much all of what you've described is run-of-the-mill marketing, that has been used by all political parties for years. You also described some astroturfing, which is also widely used by all political parties (though perhaps some more than others).

How is any of that authoritarianism?

>favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#78

Post by woodandsteel »

Facebook isn't unhappy because CA used user data to manipulate people. Facebook is unhappy because CA got the date through a third party, instead of paying for it directly.

The real test will be whether Facebook sues CA for a billion dollars over what it did, or just gives it a slap on the wrist.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#79

Post by bigiain »

mattmcknight wrote: post #75
bigiain wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit - this is _clearly_ un-democratic. What country is going to come to The US's aid and send in troops to "restore democracy"?

How is ad targeting undemocratic?

"claiming that Facebook knowingly allowed them to mine massive amounts of Facebook data — more than they would’ve allowed someone else to do — because they were supportive of the campaign."

That's how.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#80

Post by danso »

mattmcknight wrote: post #11

Is it really that different from the 2012 campaign? "But the Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns are conducted in the future. For supporters, the app appeared to be just another way to digitally connect to the campaign.... That’s because the more than 1 million Obama backers who signed up for the app gave the campaign permission to look at their Facebook fr…

Yes, because the Obama backers signed up for an app that was clearly affiliated with the Obama campaign. Were these backers assholes for knowingly wanting to spam their friends with Obama propaganda? Sure, because everyone hates spamming.

Cambridge Analytics is accused of using data that was harvested from a quiz app that was purportedly the creation of a Cambridge professor. I think that CA is being accused of something different than just spamming, but part of the overall problem is the subterfuge involved, which is generally a frowned upon thing in U.S. election regulations.

For example, it's not shady if Clinton buys up all the ad space during your favorite shows to spread her liberal indoctrination. It is problematic if those commercials run without a "This ad funded by the Hillary Clinton for President campaign" disclaimer.

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